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k98k won't close on cartrideg.

C

cmountain

Well-known member
I looked for any FAQs on this topic before posting here because I'm sure the forum tires of this question. I just picked up a very nice dou 44 k98k. Every single sn matches including the bolt. The gun is in all original condition as far as I can tell. I can't get the bolt to close on a round. I know they must be fed from the mag. I even tried loading one onto the bolt face, properly hooked under the extractor. I cleaned the chamber vigorously and brushed the bolt well. It actually appears quite clean. The bolt makes a HARD stop. By that I mean it isn't just a little tight. I would say it is definitely a metal to metal stop. It will not move one bit beyond a certain point. I tried gently bending the claw out just a little with a screwdriver, but with no results at all. Thoughts? Is it in all likelihood a case of the extractor malfunctioning?
 
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If the bolt closes with out a cartridge then it could be the ammo. Make sure that it is ammo for the K98. I bought a batch of surplus K98 ammo and it had a few 30-06 rounds mixed in that I didn't know and like you, I couldn't close the bolt either. It wasn't until I got home and checked that I found the problem.
 
reich1900 said:
If the bolt closes with out a cartridge then it could be the ammo. Make sure that it is ammo for the K98. I bought a batch of surplus K98 ammo and it had a few 30-06 rounds mixed in that I didn't know and like you, I couldn't close the bolt either. It wasn't until I got home and checked that I found the problem.
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thanks reich. How much I would love for ammo to be the problem. The ammo I am using is the cheap, metal lacquered Romanian 170 grain ball/fmj. While I know they were originally designed for the 198 grain, I did not figure this would fail to chamber. I have some brass 198 grain coming in tomorrow.
 
Maybe there is a piece of a separated case neck still in the chamber. Or a bullet stuck right in the chamber throat? Does the bolt close on empty chamber? Have you tried inserting a round manually into the chamber? It should go all way in, only the rim and groove for the extractor should be sticking out.
 
GunKraut said:
Maybe there is a piece of a separated case neck still in the chamber. Or a bullet stuck right in the chamber throat? Does the bolt close on empty chamber? Have you tried inserting a round manually into the chamber? It should go all way in, only the rim and groove for the extractor should be sticking out.
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chamber clean, bolt closes fine on empty chamber. Cartridge drops down to the groove, as best I can tell.
 
Once the cartridge has dropped down into the chamber, can you put your finger on the primer and wiggle the case slightly sideways?
 
I would suspect if you can lock the bolt with out chambering a round!! Than its 100% a head spacing problem! saying that, the chambering a out older military rifles have a much more allowance in head spacing as to the rifles of today! So it seam to me that either the seating of the projectile is way way out! Or I feel that it has something to do with the brass dimensions! It is cheap ammo your asking for problems. With I could take a look for you :)
Volks
 
Cmountain, so far the guys have covered what I would guess. I've used a fair amount of Romanian in my two shooter K98ks and Vz.24, no problems. Sounds like a seating / chamber issue. Could be out of spec rounds, could be some obstruction or dried grease stopping the bullet and/or neck from chambering all of the way. Sometimes bullet ogive can be problem. Have your tried other 8mm cartridges? Have you looked very closely at the inside of the chamber with a bore light / flex light?
 
But the "Metal to metal stop thing has put a good spin on things! Make me question my answer for you cmountian
 
Volks said:
But the "Metal to metal stop thing has put a good spin on things! Make me question my answer for you cmountian
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This stop is as hard as when a bolt closes properly shut. There is zero movement beyond that point. It seems lie the extractor is hitting something as it rolls locked. To be honest, I just don't know about mechanics of these to really say. Apparently this is not an entirely uncommon issue.
 
Sometimes a little out of spec tolerance in both directions can combine to present problems. The Romanian batch you're using could be a little to the outside high side spec and the chamber spec could be a little to the tight side spec nd there could be some dried grease in there or dried lacquer.
 
Hambone said:
Cmountain, so far the guys have covered what I would guess. I've used a fair amount of Romanian in my two shooter K98ks and Vz.24, no problems. Sounds like a seating / chamber issue. Could be out of spec rounds, could be some obstruction or dried grease stopping the bullet and/or neck from chambering all of the way. Sometimes bullet ogive can be problem. Have your tried other 8mm cartridges? Have you looked very closely at the inside of the chamber with a bore light / flex light?
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I just bought the gun this week and the 170 metal romanian is all I've tried. I will get in some brass 198 fmj tomorrow, but I don't hold out much hope that will be it.
 
cmountain said:
I just bought the gun this week and the 170 metal romanian is all I've tried. I will get in some brass 198 fmj tomorrow, but I don't hold out much hope that will be it.
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Hold out hope. It passed inspection and firing proof. If the other ammunition doesn't chamber then there is an issue in the chamber / bullet seating. A chamber is necessarily a bit precisely reamed, thus anything in it, such as dried and hardened varnish or lacquer or grease or even a perfectly round piece of case mouth which has separated, perhaps the size of a ring of a thick hair, could be causing this.

Go slow, be careful and deliberative and force nothing. I might suggest taking the action out of the stock, chamber brushing it good, plugging the bore close to the chamber, placing it muzzle down, and letting the chamber soak in Kroil for a day, then brushing out the chamber again. Let us know what happens.
 
Hambone said:
Hold out hope. It passed inspection and firing proof. If the other ammunition doesn't chamber then there is an issue in the chamber / bullet seating. A chamber is necessarily a bit precisely reamed, thus anything in it, such as dried and hardened varnish or lacquer or grease or even a perfectly round piece of case mouth which has separated, perhaps the size of a ring of a thick hair, could be causing this.

Go slow, be careful and deliberative and force nothing. I might suggest taking the action out of the stock, chamber brushing it good, plugging the bore close to the chamber, placing it muzzle down, and letting the chamber soak in Kroil for a day, then brushing out the chamber again. Let us know what happens.
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thanks much Ham. I'll start checking off the list and report first on what the brass ammo does. This gun was purchased by a friend of mine who purchased it from the son of the gentleman who brought it back from Europe. It just was not used, as evidence by its condition.
 
cmountain said:
thanks much Ham. I'll start checking off the list and report first on what the brass ammo does. This gun was purchased by a friend of mine who purchased it from the son of the gentleman who brought it back from Europe. It just was not used, as evidence by its condition.
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Cmountain, my bet is you've got very old, hard, dried varnish / storage grease in the chamber. My bet is the Kroil and scrubbing will solve the problem. You'll be fine, just don't do anything aggressive with respect to the chamber, with metal on metal scraping. :thumbsup:
 
Cmountian,
Let's know how you go! You'll get there :) I'm very interested in what is the cause and how it's fixed :)
Volks
 
That new production, "Hot shot", Romanian 8mm that Sportman's guide sold or is still selling has been known to not feed! There are threads here and other forums about it being absolute junk and way out of spec.
 
As recommended, I wouldn't do anything with a metal tool that scrapes or bends anything on the rifle.

Normally, in a situation like this, you'd check the chamber with a go gauge.

You should cast/cerrosafe the chamber to take measurements after thorough cleaning. Also, measure the ammo with a caliper and compare to CIP specs for 8mm.

View attachment 8 x 57 IS.pdf

As was suggested, I suspect you have a dirty chamber that requires a soaking treatment and scrubbing with bronze 8mm Mauser chamber brush.

Your chamber could be on the tight side of the specs and that combined with cheap lacquered steel cases could just require a bit more force to close the bolt than you'd expect. If it closes on different ammo, then you know it's the cheap Romanian ammo.

It's very unusual for an original all-matching rifle to have a too tight headspace problem unless someone has messed with it. A previous owner could have damaged the chamber and caused a burr that inhibits easily chambering a round.
 
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tjg79 said:
As recommended, I wouldn't do anything with a metal tool that scrapes or bends anything on the rifle.

Normally, in a situation like this, you'd check the chamber with a go gauge.

You should cast/cerrosafe the chamber to take measurements after thorough cleaning. Also, measure the ammo with a caliper and compare to CIP specs for 8mm.

View attachment 109839

As was suggested, I suspect you have a dirty chamber that requires a soaking treatment and scrubbing with bronze 8mm Mauser chamber brush.

Your chamber could be on the tight side of the specs and that combined with cheap lacquered steel cases could just require a bit more force to close the bolt than you'd expect. If it closes on different ammo, then you know it's the cheap Romanian ammo.

It's very unusual for an original all-matching rifle to have a too tight headspace problem unless someone has messed with it. A previous owner could have damaged the chamber and caused a burr that inhibits easily chambering a round.
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thanks TJ and everyone else here for your input. I will hopefully find out soon. I'm anxious to shoot this rifle. I'll try the new ammo today and absent resolution, will take it down to my smith to see if he sees anything off-hand. I would not think its a fatal flaw given the guns fairly limited use, but who knows. I am hopeful it can be fixed.

Once I get it figured out, I'll post pics of the rifle.
 
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