Hello once again I have a question for you guys. What am I looking at here. I heard of dual marked receivers. But is this one real. Bnz and byf. As you can see there is no letter suffix and it says markings were added later to match. Is this all a fake rifle. No other stamps that I can see anywhere didn't get close ups but what I can see on the barrel it doesn't look like any other stamps. Have any of you seen this before
? K98 bnz/byf
- Thread starter Alex14
- Start date
Mauserguy85
Well-known member
Well, the cold blue is a dead giveaway for me… I still can’t understand why people do this. This is a terrible made fake.
Force matched usually means that the original numbers were scrubbed/removed and new numbers re-stamped to match. The issue is the availability and affordability of stamping dies nowadays, especially from Poland. They are getting better but they are still not perfect. Not to mention, most humpers just don’t know how to stamp heat treated metal after scrubbing it. I won’t go into details but it’s not just taking a 4 pound sledge and hitting the stamping die on a wooden work bench. So to more advanced k98k collectors, you can spot it a mile away. The machining marks are not that easy to reproduce, obviously under closer observation you will also see a divot/indentation where the metal was sanded down to remove the original numbers.
A little off topic, but there used to be guys that would weld over the numbers with a “semi correct mineral composition” welding wire and then use rotary bits to mimic the machining marks. These guys were artists, like engraver types with very steady hands. They wouldn’t touch the receiver or barrel due to safety issues. Never a good idea to weld on a barrel. Many years ago a few were called out. No matter how you cut it, it’s a ton of work to make a really good fake and honestly not worth it financially. Probably why we so so many of these ridiculous hump jobs.
Force matched usually means that the original numbers were scrubbed/removed and new numbers re-stamped to match. The issue is the availability and affordability of stamping dies nowadays, especially from Poland. They are getting better but they are still not perfect. Not to mention, most humpers just don’t know how to stamp heat treated metal after scrubbing it. I won’t go into details but it’s not just taking a 4 pound sledge and hitting the stamping die on a wooden work bench. So to more advanced k98k collectors, you can spot it a mile away. The machining marks are not that easy to reproduce, obviously under closer observation you will also see a divot/indentation where the metal was sanded down to remove the original numbers.
A little off topic, but there used to be guys that would weld over the numbers with a “semi correct mineral composition” welding wire and then use rotary bits to mimic the machining marks. These guys were artists, like engraver types with very steady hands. They wouldn’t touch the receiver or barrel due to safety issues. Never a good idea to weld on a barrel. Many years ago a few were called out. No matter how you cut it, it’s a ton of work to make a really good fake and honestly not worth it financially. Probably why we so so many of these ridiculous hump jobs.
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Mauserguy85
Well-known member
Personally I’ve never come across a legit BYF/BNZ marked receiver dual code.
I’ve seen a good amount of dual codes like this….
BCD/BNZ 4 fully matching factory new
I bought today a BCD / BNZ 4 coded K98k, fully matching numbers in factory new condition. The barrel is as it looks on the outside, factory new. Stock is also matching numbers on the inside. The only bad thing about it is the civilean Austrian firing proof it had received when it was sold by the...
www.k98kforum.com
R.W. Parker
Well-known member
I had long been under the impression that "force matched" referred to the practice of lining out a non-matching number, and adding a matching number with an electro-pencil (such as with RCs).
I would think the process of filling in or otherwise removing an existing number and restamping it to something different would come under the heading of fraud or counterfeiting.
mauser99
Senior Member
its a fantasy recreation.. nothing more or less.. study fonts. the font will tell you everything you need to know..
Oh okay yea I was just stumped because all the numbers matched. I kinda wish they would make that illegal. To put serial numbers that someone can just add onto a gun to make it a fake piece. But I guess it's no difference that doing that to another gun for an FFL. It just amazes me the amount people go to rip someone off especially with the detail of this rifle. Because someone like me can easily fall for it. Well thanks again guys
heavy_mech
RKI- Reasonably Knowledgable Individual
This isn't a knock on you and I think it's good that you ask FIRST rather than making a mistake, however I think what you're searching for is actually pushing you right into these guys. The fakers love them SS, TK, runes and 'camp rifles' and use all the usual buzzwords in the title for that reason.
Muncher 1953
Senior Member
it would be nice to see you find a regular collector grade or shooter rifle here without all the challenges of ‘camp’ ‘dh’ or ‘ss’ rifles……there have been several offered here recently……..
heavy_mech
RKI- Reasonably Knowledgable Individual
I hear you completely, but I also understand the 'why' he wants one. Same reason all the other guys who flock to them.
Regarding those 'challenges' you mention, I haven't tracked scientifically, but I'd bet we see 6,7 or 8 fake rune/TK rifles for each legit one. My ratio may be off, but the point is valid.
Yea well I have a shooter that I got. I think I posted it up on the forum. It has a scope on it. Everyone said it was most likely all matching but it was a heavy yugo refurbished. Someone bent the bolt to clear a scope.I only paid 100$ for it barrel was or looks brand new. I just want a SS contract now. I would be happy if everything matched but the bolt. I just have one i want but guys asking 2700$ and I been told by a bunch of you that its way to high for it. Other than that i don't really see them that often anymore. I seen a couple rune rifles but heavily damaged and mismatched. But nothing really good for now. I have a grail k98k that a friend told me about and I kinda want one now really bad but I know I won't find a Lithuanian contract FN 24 L with the Columns of Gediminas. I been trying to find more information on them but I only found a couple forums on here only.
Muncher 1953
Senior Member
jeepers, if I’d known that was your grail some months ago, i might have set you onto one near me (@ LGS). I’d never seen/heard of one before stumbling on it there, hadda go look up what it was. it was a while ago, asking was $2k+ & appearance well used, so i left it.
Muncher 1953
Senior Member
the ratio of good to fake is too poor for me to want one, just kills my interest to know in advance that i’ll likely get xxxx xxxxxx. not something i enjoy, but then i really don’t get why folks patronize casinos, they HAVE to win 80-90% of the time to stay in business. at least w/state lottery you reduce the tax demand a little bit, even if you never win anything.
Aww man yep. I would've loved to see it. And it really does worry me the amount of fakes out there. That's why I'm so happy to have all you cool guys to help me out. You all have no idea how many times you guys have saved me. Especially with the information you guys have given me.
Also what would be the better to get the one I'm looking at or the Portuguese contract one. I'm really looking for collectable value for the most part but also I want german ww2 guns. Even though the second contract never made it to them. And I want an astra for my german gun collection
hale1940
Canadian Fabio
Most of the second contract (the M937B’s) were delivered to Portugal. And there is literally no way to tell the difference from one that was delivered vs one that was pulled into German service. Unless its an RC or something, or it went through the German depot system.
Sellers of the 1941 Port’s love to insinuate that their rifle was used by the Germans blah blah blah. Truth is almost none of the ones you see matching and complete on the market today were.