J.P. Sauer K98k Serials and Data, 1934-1944
- Thread starter bruce98k
- Start date
Thanks, - I am not sure what I would be looking for, but possibly if it had a logo or some symbol I would recognize it might identify the maker (waffenamt are inspectors, they move around, you cannot always associate a manufacturer by the inspector, typically they are regional anyway, - the larger areas, like Berlin had numerous waffenamt-inspectors, all working at the same time at different firms, apparently by specialty). I was thinking these receivers might be leftovers, maybe old MO-MB receivers, or not, but the others I have recorded do not show below the wood line and it is possible a clue could be had by looking.
Last night I also remembered another use of this queer acceptance pattern, this use of waffenamt e/211, they are known on a very few G12/34 (the so-call G29ö made by SDP) from 1939, on a handful of rifles the first position (same as yours for the hardening of the receiver) has a e/211 inspector, different style but same inspector, no asterisk in this case.
This is generally not known, but in both cases it is confirmed and if we could get a good look at a rifle, discover the origin or purpose of this inspector, I am sure Mike and Bruce would want to discuss this in their next book.
If anyone has a G12/34 from the latter “b” block, check your RR, if you have a ce/41 from the r-t blocks (anything around this range, the vast majority will be e/359) also check your RR, - you could have a rifle Mike and Bruce might like to include in their Vol.II
Last night I also remembered another use of this queer acceptance pattern, this use of waffenamt e/211, they are known on a very few G12/34 (the so-call G29ö made by SDP) from 1939, on a handful of rifles the first position (same as yours for the hardening of the receiver) has a e/211 inspector, different style but same inspector, no asterisk in this case.
This is generally not known, but in both cases it is confirmed and if we could get a good look at a rifle, discover the origin or purpose of this inspector, I am sure Mike and Bruce would want to discuss this in their next book.
If anyone has a G12/34 from the latter “b” block, check your RR, if you have a ce/41 from the r-t blocks (anything around this range, the vast majority will be e/359) also check your RR, - you could have a rifle Mike and Bruce might like to include in their Vol.II
Ha....awsome! An anomaly! I thought that might be an odd stamp from what I've learned since taking an interest in these rifles. Had to go back and look at it again to make sure it really is an e/211 after you mentioned it was odd to see it on this rifleYep, it has an asterisk underneath it and the e/211 is smaller than the e/37's. As far as the barrel code goes, the S and GS are a larger font than the rest
I can absolutely tear it down to check for any other markings...is there anything in particular I should be looking for? I probably won't have a chance until mid next week though. I can take some pics as well and post them too if you'd like.
And lastly....its the Mod.98 bold on the siderail
Hi, managed to get the rifle taken down and took a few pics for you. On the underside of the receiver between the front trigger guard screw location and the magazine cut out there is an eagle with a 359 next to it, below that there is a W and below that is an....asterisk? On either side of those markings there is an 11 and a 7. on the front face of the area machined for the trigger guard screw is a number 6 and immediately to the left side of that is the number 38. There is also an e/37 below the woodline on the left side of the receiver near where the barrel threads into the receiver. There is also a number 7 stamped on the bottom near the front of the rear sight base if that matters. If the pics aren't good enough or you'd like another specific view, let me know...I can reshoot them if need be. Anyway, these were the only markings found. Hope this helps.
While there are only a handful of bottom flats to compare this too, it is a little more busy than others I compared, - the "eagle" (I assume a partial waffenamt) and the "359" or similar such markings are not found on the others, but it is hard to say if that is important. Unfortunately this view is rarely shown except by advanced collectors, people doing datasheets or by request, so not enough have been recorded to know what is truly "typical", but from the others known it is different. The "11" is typically there (different numbers), so that is probably related to JPS assembly normally, random markings are also common and they generally have no obvious pattern.
These pictures are fine, thanks for taking the time to do them, perhaps in time others will find this thread and add to your effort and we might be able to develop a pattern.
These pictures are fine, thanks for taking the time to do them, perhaps in time others will find this thread and add to your effort and we might be able to develop a pattern.
tsmgguy
Senior Member
1943 JP Sauer
Here's a link to a thread with photos about my 1943 dated JP Sauer 98k.
http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?11762-43-Sauer-amp-Sohn-98k
Here's a link to a thread with photos about my 1943 dated JP Sauer 98k.
http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?11762-43-Sauer-amp-Sohn-98k
Recent purchase ce41
Picked up a ce 41 recently that is matching except for the handguard, lower band, bandspring and bolt release. Also missing cleaning rod and sight hood. Has condition issues of surface rust that someone has vigorously tried to scrub off in a couple places. Also, looks like some old shellac in spots applied long ago. Couldn't pass it up for $150 though.
Serial is 7851 d. Barrel code is S49454 41 DS followed by e/37 X3. Some photos of this homely gal!
Stock channel is marked Na 7 40 40. Would that correlate to Sep. 28, 1940?
Picked up a ce 41 recently that is matching except for the handguard, lower band, bandspring and bolt release. Also missing cleaning rod and sight hood. Has condition issues of surface rust that someone has vigorously tried to scrub off in a couple places. Also, looks like some old shellac in spots applied long ago. Couldn't pass it up for $150 though.
Serial is 7851 d. Barrel code is S49454 41 DS followed by e/37 X3. Some photos of this homely gal!
Stock channel is marked Na 7 40 40. Would that correlate to Sep. 28, 1940?
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The firing pin is most interesting, not sure that has been seen before, q=Julius Kähler, a very interesting Saxon firm that made parts and special machinery for the clothing, stocking and knitwear makers. A pretty good size company really, but as far as rifles go most of their production went to Gustloff (337-bcd)
Have you any other odd parts on the rifle? The bolt in particular?
Have you any other odd parts on the rifle? The bolt in particular?
Thank you for that info Loewe! Everything else on the bolt and elsewhere seem to have the e/37 stamp, or e/359 (x2 on the rear sight base collar). The lower band(mis-matched) is marked e/4 and is the early type 1 milled, but who knows when or where that came to this rifle. Here are some bolt photos. Can see no marking on the extractor collar.
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Forgot the last bolt photo. Looks like a "W" next to the faint Nazi eagle on the rear of the bolt flat.
Also, there is no "Mod. 98" marking on the receiver siderail. As I recall, some earlier Sauer production had no markings, but thought they started marking them as such in the late 30's. Did they delete it again in 1941?
Also, there is no "Mod. 98" marking on the receiver siderail. As I recall, some earlier Sauer production had no markings, but thought they started marking them as such in the late 30's. Did they delete it again in 1941?
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Thanks for the full details on the bolt, very helpful, unfortunately too few are so thoroughly examined or reported and we do not know how common sub-contractors such a Kähler were used for small components by JPS, but it stands to reason they were used increasingly as the war wore on.
Of course, many of the parts were not made by JPS even when marked-inspected by e/37, but all were in the vicinity, as was Z-M and e/359 parts. In time, when more collectors do as you have done, we will know more, so far this is the first I have recorded this firing pin for JPS, but I am sure more are out there.
As to BSW or e/4 inspection, JPS does use BSW parts on occasion, primarily barrels and a few rearsights, - no bands so recorded, but it must be said that so few bother showing or recording the RS of the bands one can't be sure. Yours being mismatched I guess it doesn't matter, but if it did match it would be unusual so far as has been recorded.
Of course, many of the parts were not made by JPS even when marked-inspected by e/37, but all were in the vicinity, as was Z-M and e/359 parts. In time, when more collectors do as you have done, we will know more, so far this is the first I have recorded this firing pin for JPS, but I am sure more are out there.
As to BSW or e/4 inspection, JPS does use BSW parts on occasion, primarily barrels and a few rearsights, - no bands so recorded, but it must be said that so few bother showing or recording the RS of the bands one can't be sure. Yours being mismatched I guess it doesn't matter, but if it did match it would be unusual so far as has been recorded.
Yes, this is proper in this range, BSR (blank siderail), a short range in 1941 they dropped it for some reason, only a short range is known, starting b-block through the g-block, it is back by the later g-h block, but hard to say exactly when or if it is consistent throughout this b-g range (seems to be within this range) as so few record when a marking doesn't exist (many don't when it does, especially if it is taken for granted, often it is by chance that it can be gleaned, like in your overview picture I could see it was BSR, - it is rare for someone to intentionally take a photo of a siderail when nothing is there... )
This is why "trends" are done, I am trying to develop patterns based around solid rifles to be able to determine what is normal on production in general, naturally this is complicated by poor reporting and partial reports.
This is why "trends" are done, I am trying to develop patterns based around solid rifles to be able to determine what is normal on production in general, naturally this is complicated by poor reporting and partial reports.
missrosalita37
Active member
My 1936 S/147...
Serial number 2543.
I'll have more later, including pics.
Jim
Serial number 2543.
I'll have more later, including pics.
Jim
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CE44 Question
Hi Guys,
I'm new to the forum, but have been a long time K98 collector. I have been offered a CE44 n block. Rifle is supposedly a vet bringback. The seller claims that it is all matching #'s. He also mentioned that the bayonet lug and floorplate are not numbered. Are the no numbered parts correct for a n-block CE 44 rifle?
I am still awaiting photos, so unfortunately I cannot shed any other information. Condition is descibed as good with some greying on the finish and normal wear & tear. What is a good ballpark offer on this weapon?
I appreciate your opinions on this matter.
Thanks,
Jim
mauser98
Hi Guys,
I'm new to the forum, but have been a long time K98 collector. I have been offered a CE44 n block. Rifle is supposedly a vet bringback. The seller claims that it is all matching #'s. He also mentioned that the bayonet lug and floorplate are not numbered. Are the no numbered parts correct for a n-block CE 44 rifle?
I am still awaiting photos, so unfortunately I cannot shed any other information. Condition is descibed as good with some greying on the finish and normal wear & tear. What is a good ballpark offer on this weapon?
I appreciate your opinions on this matter.
Thanks,
Jim
mauser98
Unknown, though I doubt it would be serialed.
I have never recorded this feature on any ce/44 and the very few that have done datasheets for my research have this as unmarked, an example or two sort of show this area, and it looks blank, but typically people do not image metal unless it is serialed, so I would say it probably shouldn't be marked with a serial.
Hard to say on value without pictures, though "generally" if a rifle has one problem it likely will have others, but alone the m/m FP is a minor problem. It isn't a rare maker-date, quite a few were made and many exist in higher matching condition, but it isn't the most common maker and not especially easy to find matching-original (MO, dot, dou, bcd are much easier, though some of those makers have interesting variations that make some worth more, - and JPS typically doesn't)
I have never recorded this feature on any ce/44 and the very few that have done datasheets for my research have this as unmarked, an example or two sort of show this area, and it looks blank, but typically people do not image metal unless it is serialed, so I would say it probably shouldn't be marked with a serial.
Hard to say on value without pictures, though "generally" if a rifle has one problem it likely will have others, but alone the m/m FP is a minor problem. It isn't a rare maker-date, quite a few were made and many exist in higher matching condition, but it isn't the most common maker and not especially easy to find matching-original (MO, dot, dou, bcd are much easier, though some of those makers have interesting variations that make some worth more, - and JPS typically doesn't)
