DougB exposes "Champagne Rune" SS Decal Fraud and Adds a Coffin Nail to XRFacts
- Thread starter Hambone
- Start date
It was laughable and bordered upon unethical. In fact, I told him if he thought his threats were ethical that we should submit them to his state bar for consideration. And if he did it again or threatened Gunboards again I would submit them to his state bar without his assistance.
His "demand" letter is in the XRF thread. Well grounded and supported science and meritorious claims don't need censorship and threats to support them. Note how "Climate Change" advocates engage in the same conduct, even calling for criminal penalties for "deniers."
tjg79
Senior Member
I believe that we came to the same conclusion at the same time and fortunately had a venue to continue an open discussion after Vid at Gunboards censored, deleted and stopped it. Interestingly, Bugme and the guys at US Militaria came to the same conclusions independently. I knew something was wrong when a XRFacts lawyer sent a long threatening demand letter trying to censor us. He demanded we delete all threads, apologize for being wrong, and post an ad and links for XRFacts in place of the criticism. I personally responded to him in a way you can imagine and he broke like the wind, never to be heard from again.
You share just as much blame for the crash of XRFacts' science as I doHowever the proper responsibility for the fail is XRFacts itself. As an aside, DougB thanked us and said that he had mistakenly confused us with Gunboards, and that the Epic XRFacts Thread here is the intended "bulwark" reference in his work. That citation was amended. That XRFacts thread has significant information, not only the scientific discussion, but special guest star appearances by Maui and DougB. One day we can do a redacted Cliff Notes version of it.
This started on the WAF lid forum back in 2009/2010 where you were a member. You were asking all the right questions, but you weren't getting any answers. Your skepticism resulted in caustic attacks and your posts were heavily censored. Previous to that, on another contentious WAF lid thread, you had suggested scientific testing and analysis to authenticate camo paint, because of questionable blessings. When the XRF debuted on WAF and you displayed skepticism, you were attacked, because maui was now using "scientific testing and analysis" and you still weren't satisfied. I know now that your questions couldn't be answered, because maui wasn't capable of answering any questions about the science or the application test method. All maui knew was that if you took a shot of a lid and compared it to a shot of a different lid, he could see similarities and patterns that he thought could be used to authenticate lids. The XRF data was displayed as a pie chart. So, authentication was merely comparing one pie chart to another; a blessed lid pie chart to a questionable lid pie chart. This display of "scientific instrument" output, pie charts, and authentication pronouncements dazzled those in the bottom half of the bell curve. The waftards and wafmods had had enough of your skepticism and criticism of blessings, so you got banned.
The battered Hambone then started an OT lid/XRF thread on the GB K98k forum later moved to a new GB German Militeria Forum. I didn't know anything about lids, but I did know something about XRF, instrumental methods of analysis, analytical chemistry, and environmental laboratory operations. You explained what was going on at WAF and I looked at those WAF threads. So, we started hammering away on GB posting humor, facts, limitations, criticism of their method, calling out the lies and falsehoods, etc..., until the hammering noise was too much for the girly men mods at GB. So, the XRF party was move to the new K98k forum, because no girly men mods here, where we partied even harder for years. Doug B and maui visited the party at various times. Bugme later showed up and indicated that he had an XRF party on his forum as well.
As I've indicated before, XRFacts collapsed on its own, because it was a lie. The XRF party at GB and the K98k Forum just explained why the collapse was imminent.
Wow, you know I had forgotten most of that. Your recitation makes it feel like yesterday. I remember how relieved I was that someone with a technical background in this came to my aid. I knew something was wrong with all of this, and all of the toady support for it, but couldn't technically nail it down. WAF first attacked me for daring to suggest that an objective method of authenticating camouflage painted helmets was required, which objective method suggestions they ridiculed. Then, they attacked, ridiculed, and censored discussions concerning flaws and weaknesses in XRF which made it unsuitable for the claimed uses. Band wagon / "sole source authentication" / glee club effect..... Thanks Tjg. I think we, and others, have been completed vindicated at this point.
Where's Maui?
I guess the waftarded conveniently forget the people like Nutmeg and the moderators there who proclaimed XRFacts the "savior of the hobby" and went on and on about how wonderful and scientific it was, when they clearly didn't have a clue. IMHO, that level of ignorance, i.e., being too ignorant and arrogant to know what you don't know, is dangerous. Same with the Champagne Rune where guys like Zam who nailed it in 2012 that the Champagne Rune was airbrushed on, got ridiculed, shouted down, and muzzled. Imagine what would have happened to the collecting community had XRFacts been allowed to flourish in such a nonsensical environment.
I wonder if anyone will call those klowns to task for their XRFacts' ignoramus act?
tjg79
Senior Member
I guess the waftarded conveniently forget the people like Nutmeg and the moderators there who proclaimed XRFacts the "savior of the hobby" and went on and on about how wonderful and scientific it was, when they clearly didn't have a clue. IMHO, that level of ignorance, i.e., being too ignorant and arrogant to know what you don't know, is dangerous. Same with the Champagne Rune where guys like Zam who nailed it in 2012 that the Champagne Rune was airbrushed on, got ridiculed, shouted down, and muzzled. Imagine what would have happened to the collecting community had XRFacts been allowed to flourish in such a nonsensical environment.
If ZAM was a K98 collector and had a forum to fall back to, this would have been revealed years ago. He would have been supported. But, like you, he was out numbered with no real support on WAF. Initially, the first few posters agreed with ZAM, but then the forum toadies stepped in citing their SS Steel bible.
IMHO, WAF ridiculed, beat down, and censored most all free thought out of the forums there I am familiar with. that site was responsible for creating at least two other helmet/militaria sites by refugees fleeing intellectual Armageddon. Censorship is a sign of intellectual weakness and of course, lack of support for a position. In our K98kForum world ZAM's theory and post would have ended up a sticky back in 2012. In WAFworld he got ridiculed and the thread locked.
This synopsis is as funny as it is true. I actually laughed out loud. Very well written and the perfect breakdown of what actually happened. Kudos to Bugme for finding the same conclusions at their forum.
tjg79
Senior Member
Yes, I remember that you wanted me to go over to WAF and post on those threads. Thanks, that would have been like sticking my finger into a hornets nest.
Maui is probably drunk in a bar somewhere on the Gulf coast.
I deemed what WAF was doing to be shockingly irresponsible and ignorant to the point of appearing to me to be insanity. Had it just been a matter of WAFmods and the waftard choir crapping in their own sleeping bags and rolling in it, then it would have been funny. However, I was seeing people who fancy themselves as shot callers bedazzled and hipmotized by a light show and free plastic bags trying to institutionalize sole source authentication voodoo, at $250 a pie chart, as mandatory for the whole hobby, me included. I saw dealers climbing aboard. Then I saw these amateur scientists and assorted toadies trying to extend XRFacts' "science" to uniforms, insignia, etc., before it was vetted or proven to be anything other than a light show. My opinion was that I could conceive of this reaction from children, Aborigines or primitive people of the Amazon, who might have an orgasm over a Bic lighter, but not people of supposed education or mild sophistication over something so unvetted and unprofessional except for "because we say so" and because "we cracked the code." Meaningful debate and discussion was censored and suppressed.
My opinion was that XRFacts was not only a potential menace to the hobby, but a menace to me personally and my collection, and thus it goes.......
Great stuff here, worth saving some of it in screen shots for historical reference:
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=578059
Zam nails it in 2012. Some of the comments are profoundly ironic, particularly that the helmet forum would be a "laughing stock" for allowing Zam to even post any of that
Then, WAF shuts it down.
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=578059
Zam nails it in 2012. Some of the comments are profoundly ironic, particularly that the helmet forum would be a "laughing stock" for allowing Zam to even post any of that
Then, WAF shuts it down.Attachments
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tjg79
Senior Member
I think that there must be a few lid collectors out there that don't post like they've got a bad case of constipation. Some of those posts you'd expect to see on a satirical show such as SNL. It's almost like that entire thread was contrived as a joke with the most ridiculously worded posts.
I like that one, but this one is better I think.........He's right though
To me this is THE quote that best represents the Champagne Rune hoax on WAF, no doubt.
Well said. It's hilarious and I'm embarrassed for them at the same time. It's classic waftardation. Lemming like single authority and mod worship, lack of independent and objective thought process, and intense hatred and ridicule for anyone who dares question them or their gods; someone with a low post count and with a "contrary" opinion.
Of course, over the years WAF trained these people this way and ran off those who were not trainable. It's merely a carry over from the days before the internet when certain dealers lorded over their table flies and then laughed at how much money they made off of them at the hotel bar that night. IMHO, WAF has not advanced much more than that, and has run off, censored, and banned all who are not waftarded enough for their liking. This is exactly how and why XRFacts was able to get traction and be deemed "savior of the hobby" (probably the most dangerously absurd collecting comment I've ever heard) and how and why the Great Champagne Rune Hoax was able to last almost 30 years.
tjg79
Senior Member
It's a post like that were I'm surprised that have to agree with the waftard.