DougB exposes "Champagne Rune" SS Decal Fraud and Adds a Coffin Nail to XRFacts

I'd say the first clue to the faker is the gunshow that the first 2 were bought at. From there it would probably take 10 minutes to figure out, especially to the locals.
 
Kelly Hicks @ ss-steel-inc said:
I vet purchased at the Columbus Gun Show in the 1970s.
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Which Columbus Gun Show?

One thing that has been pointed out is that you've got to be careful about naming names without hard evidence. Slander is a liability.
 
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nirvana said:
It's the mob mentality. The people with power had books and websites and the power to censor out any debate. It's hard to fight the mob, especially if you have no money or publications to give you street cred. If there were only two forums out there (no names mentioned), then this story would've been buried and died. It's only because people set up other forums where dissent was permitted that this worked out. If DougB (or anyone else for that matter) had just made a blog post about the helmets on a place that no one visited, then no one would've cared publicly. Buyers in the know might have shied away, but that's it.
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You nailed it. The censorship at WAF works when no one knows what was deleted. I vividly remember at WAF some guys disagreeing with one of Perry Floid's helmet blessings and I agreed with them. Willi Zahn contacted me by PM and told me, "those guys are troublemakers" and essentially "you agree with us and you're in good shape." My opinion of WAF at that time was formed and then solidified when I saw some of the most ridiculous camo fakes I've ever seen being blessed and then sold on the WAF e-stand for thousands.

The censor's power is controlling the information. WAF no longer controls the discussion. Whenever you see WAF or Vid at Gunboards censoring or locking threads, ask this simple question: "Who does the censorship and thread locking benefit?"

By WAF members ridiculing and WAFmods threadlocking the discussion of Champagne runes being sprayed on fakes, three years ago, in 2012, right after the subject fake was sold for $24,000.00, who did that help? The collecting community?
 
tjg79 said:
From what I've read, probably not dead. I think the faker's identity is known to a few, but they aren't talking in public. If you cozied up to the right people, then I think you could get the answer you seek. I think all these lids were created long ago and they and haven't been produced lately. I think the 90s is the last time a new one was born.
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I've these started turning up 40 years ago, the faker has to be at least 65-70 years old. I'm doubting a teenage kid made these, as for better or worse, they took at least some talent to create. If the guy was able to hustle these so well and not get caught, why did he stop? If he had pushers in the community, he could've filtered them out once or twice a year forever. This is why I was guessing death. Who knows though.

Market saturation is an option I guess, as well as the narrowing of the community. Only so many DD SS chicken wire snow camo M-35s can crawl out of the woodwork, as nearly all WW2 helmets are now in the hands of at least a second owner. Once they hit a collector circuit or got into a book, they became known to people. (Hence comment like "I used to own that example" or "That was in the John Smith collection."). Perhaps the fact his earlier fakes were starting to change colors (in the '90s?) put the writing on the wall and caused him to quit.

The forger made some pretty notable mistakes in retrospect, like putting a "decal" onto a pre-war helmet. The multitude of nearly mint ckl M-42s seemed like a blessing for him at the time, but in retrospect it bit him in the a$$. Helmets that late with those decals were ultimately a major tell. This onion has so many layers, only time will tell.
 
Well, you've got to understand that collecting is and collectors are more sophisticated today than back in the 70s, 80s and early 90s which is when this all happened from what I understand. Be grateful for the internet. DB estimates only about 40 or 50 C SS examples exist which isn't market saturation in my opinion. Their low numbers were actually a clue to them being fakes. If you want to talk fakes saturating the market, think camos. I don't think anything has bitten this faker, because it's likely been two decades since one was born and he's banked his profits long ago. The faker's mistakes are moot, because they weren't fully detected until USB microscopes became available. Yes, some thought these were fakes from the beginning, but they did get published in lid books and at least two authors were fooled. Thank M45 for the lot number data, which in my opinion established these as post-war fakes. This is the type of information that was never fully developed until M45 did his great effort for the lid collecting community. The fact that a few guys likely know who did this and that nobody has indicated that he's passed, that indicates to me that he's still alive and kickin'.
 
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The forger made some pretty notable mistakes in retrospect, like putting a "decal" onto a pre-war [sic: late war ?] helmet. The multitude of nearly mint ckl M-42s seemed like a blessing for him at the time, but in retrospect it bit him in the a$$. Helmets that late with those decals were ultimately a major tell. This onion has so many layers, only time will tell.

Prior to lot# research, it was difficult for most collectors to see red flags on late C-SS helmets, (unless they were 1944 dated). A C-SS decal on a ckl M42 with slate gray paint was "as right as rain" as they used to say at militaria shows. Unissued lid, unissued "decal", unissued liner; it all matched up very well. And because so many of us like unissued gear, the C-SS fit right into the collecting world. The connection between lot#s was unknown at that time and was a non-issue. As long as the lid had an established factory mark (CKL) and any lot #, they knew it was good.

Collectors would stare and stare at C-SS and they loved it. And the big-wig SS experts loved them as well. It could have gone on that way for eternity.

But I began seeing unissued slate gray ckl M42s with and without C-SS. In addition, I came across that March 1945 newsreel of the USAAF pilots finding unissued M42s in a bombed out train. The color footage showed a fine gray paint, unissed M42s, and the wavy metal near the scallop typical of latewar ckl M42s and began making connections.

As I recall, the suggestions that those unissued C-SS lids were originally NDs from that rail car cache were NOT well received on GHW1.

Much of that research can be chalked up to my strong interest in late war ND helmets. Most collectors do not spend their time and money there, but I do. You needed someone in the late war end of it to get clued in that something was not right.
 
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Maertz was a prolific restorer as previously stated, by his own statements, such as, "I restore WWII German helmets. I have done over 42,000 in the past 35 years." Not saying he did restoration work to defraud. In fact, much to the chagrin of some he's ID'd SS helmets publicly as his work. However, what did the person for whom he restored the helmet do after that with it? Maertz would likely know who was producing work like this as that is when he was very actively restoring. He and Terry Goodapple co-authored the first two German helmet books:

http://germanhelmetsinc.com/books.htm

Threads on Maertz restorations:

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/for...in-insignia-overpaint-removal-for-m-1-helmts/

http://wehrmacht-awards.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=560193&page=2
 

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There's no telling how many of his restorations are now sitting in collections as legit examples. I don't get the impression that he was faking for profit, but performing restorations as requested and lids for projects as contracted. I'm sure he could produce a C SS lid if he wanted to. He's got the resume.
 
"Please note that there has been some recent discussion regarding Champaign decals. Mr Kelly Hicks is currently preparing a lengthy essay on these decals, and why he feels that they are completely period correct."

That should be interesting. An essay sure is cheaper than paying up on COAs on $5k+ CR SS lids. However, without the evidence produced by DougB, what's more believable, an "essay" or evidence? I don't think you are going to find an expert to testify that these are, in fact, decals and not sprayed on, from what I see. An "essay" from Mr. Hicks is not going to turn airbrushed spray paint into a decal.
 
That was published before DB's dissertation was published. It's like cresting a hill and seeing that your out numbered a hundred to one. It's better to retreat. Like I posted before, let us know when KH starts his high dollar HamFacts subscription. He'll need some magic to float his "lengthy essay." DB's work is that good.
 
This is too big of a steamer to cover up. You'll know if HamFacts got the contract for exorcism of these CR lids if the owners start getting HamFacts Provenance Through Magic pie charts and COAs in place of the ones they have now ;)

The most disturbing thing is to see how censorship at WAF stopped public discussion of the fraud in 2012 when ZAM nailed it, with detailed pics DougB used. If ever there was in indictment of such practices, this is it. 10 years ago WAF could have controlled this. DougB would have had to have started up his own blogsite to reveal this. No longer. WAF's stated rule is that they will lock threads and stop discussions when discussion gets uncivil, in the WAFmod's opinion. Thus it is easy to stop a discussion and lock a thread, or provide the reason for a WAFmod to do so, as in the ZAM thread.
 
Hambone said:
Yep, WAFmods have started the background "clean up". Looks like they deleted a very large number of posts. That's why it's important to save everything early, before thread history is "revised". Pretty sad stuff :facepalm:
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That is not what we call moderating, it's what we call covering up a lie. These guys have no place being moderators! They are as guilty as the creator of these faked helmets.
 
DougB @ WAF said:
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=834155&page=6

HH is falling back on the tried and true sole authentication method. It's real because KH says it is.
I address Kelly's lengthy essay in my article.
I hope HH will read the article and see what the evidence clearly shows. I'd be happy to do a no cost analysis of it including covering all shipping costs.
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Based on DB's post, #79 on the WAF thread quoted above, perhaps KH's "lengthy essay" has already been published. I wonder what it says?

If it has been published, it hasn't made any waves.
 
Bugme said:
That is not what we call moderating, it's what we call covering up a lie. These guys have no place being moderators! They are as guilty as the creator of these faked helmets.
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That's been my opinion and position for quite some time. I further hold the opinion that the insidiousness of censorship is clearly shown by the Champagne Rune Hoax itself. WAF member ZAM nailed it in 2012 and he was shouted down, silenced, and WAF stopped discussion of it. When this happens one need only ask, "who does the censorship of this benefit?" Imagine where we would be with XRFacts and the Champagne Runes if these matters were left to WAF to sort out. :facepalm:
 
The way the WAFmods mod, they have no credibility. They primarily "cleaned-up" a bunch of posts that were nothing more than a few guys going at each other, but when the post count drops 15 posts, you don't know if they only "cleaned-up" the dispute or also took the liberty to clean-up what they didn't like. Also, since all they appear to do is delete posts, they should be called WAFcensors rather than WAFmods. Typically, it can be very confusing reading WAF threads, because of all the deletions.
 
https://grenadierauctions.hibid.com/lot/22444086/m-42-waffen-ss-s-d-combat-helmet?tab=0

Lot # : 20 - M-42 Waffen-SS S/D Combat Helmet [C SS Lid]

C SS Lid.jpg

TYPE : Online-Only Auction
Internet Bidding has Closed

Description :

M-42 Waffen-SS S/D Combat Helmet
The helmet shell is marked with a very faint maker's marking, and size "66." It features a semi-rough field gray finish, which is approx. 95%. The finish shows light to moderate wear. The right side of the helmet features a "Champagne" SS Sig-Rune decal which is approx. 96% with several small chips and scrapes from period use. Please note that there has been some recent discussion regarding Champaign decals. Mr Kelly Hicks is currently preparing a lengthy essay on these decals, and why he feels that they are completely period correct. The helmet is complete with it's original, undamaged leather liner, which shows some chafing around the edge. The liner is complete with it's original chinstrap and drawstring. The three liner rivets are 100% original and untouched. The helmet is completely untouched, and is a fine example of a Waffen-SS combat helmet. The overall condition is very good+
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Did anyone notice what the final bid was for this fake? I don't see anything on the website that indicates it sold for any price. I was wondering if the new article by Doug B had any effect. The last bid I recall was a single bid for about $1,400.00
 
DougB @ GHWII said:
Summary and Conclusion

In posting the above evidence I believe there is no other logical conclusion than that of a fraud that was perpetrated by an individual over many years. This individual is known to some, and reportedly used phony veterans to sell his fake SS helmets as is known to happen across all genres of Third Reich Militaria (phony vet stories are commonplace in the hobby as we well know). The methods were to use top condition helmets, in most cases no decal M42s, in many cases M35s that had the original decals removed, paint a pulver base on, and then using a precision made template that can only be used once, spray a decal that was based on and closely resembles an ET decal.

The same individual has made a Pocher decal and I have seen it but I do not have permission to post it. This decal however will not fool the trained eye as it is trying to copy an existing decal. This distinction is important. The reason the Champagne decal flourished is because it was classified, published and legitimized as its own individual unique decal, different than all the rest. The fakes that are out there of this decal are copying published examples of fake decals. Without their publication, classification and acceptance as a unique decal, one that follows none of the rules that other SS or any period German decal follow, this decal would have been outed a long time ago.

Do I think that proponents of the Champagne decal have participated in a massive fraud. No, I do not. I believe the community is guilty of abdicating authentication to a sole source, that the community initially accepted them as real, and those that knew more did not speak out to prevent them from becoming legitimized. Those selling them felt they were real as they were published in a book.

This knowledge remained stagnant until now, when data and images kept separate were pooled together and compared as one. At that point it was when I realized what these were and called someone who had told me for years he knew they were fake, while I was being told that was impossible, they were in a book and authenticated by the top people in the SS helmet collecting genre. When I realized what these were several months ago, I called the person who told me they were fake and I said I know what these are, and it involves spray paint and templates. I was told I was 100% correct and a long phone call ensued. There will be more to come on this "decal" in an upcoming publication.

If you own one I am truly sorry. I am sure there will be arguments on them for years to come but there is nothing to argue about. These do not exist for the multitude of reasons I have posted in this thread tonight. I have refunded Chris the money for the Bell L which he bought from SS Steel. I however was denied a refund. Perhaps now that I can prove beyond any shadow of a doubt I may be able to collect on the Lifetime Guarantee but I will not hold out hope for that and really it is not going to change my life one iota whether I get my money back or not. I do believe in doing the right thing however. Others may deny the reality of the situation but they will do so at their own peril and at the risk of their own reputation.

I hope that with this in-depth and non biased analysis you can now make a non-partisan decision on your own. I will not enter into nonsensical "what if" debates. Do your own homework on the subject if you disagree and post your own results in a separate thread. As I was told by many when I broke into the hobby, "The answers are right in front of you, you just need to look". So read, look and learn.

However after 3 years of research and 16 hours solid creating this thread, I rest my case.

Doug

http://www.ghw2.com/topic/49701-mythbusting-the-champagne-decal/page-2
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I've read indications that Kelly Hicks intends to refuse claims against his COA Lifetime Guarantee and deny these C SS lids are fake.
 
It is important to note that DougB mistakenly credits Gunboards for being a "bulwark against which XRFacts crashed." That is not true and improperly credits those who censored and deleted practically all of the XRFacts discussion, which served to protect it and Kelly Hicks' involvement from scrutiny and discussion. This is shown when you click on the Gunboards links which were censored and deleted. Gunboards / Vid's conduct was, IMHO, shameful in this respect and the credit for being the "bulwark against which XRFacts crashed" is truthfully and properly owed to this site and forum. The evidence of that is here:

http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?893-XRFacts-Forums-and-Censorship

Propriety requires that correction.
 
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