BSW SS OBJECTIVE MOUNT SNIPER RIFLE
- Thread starter Dave Roberts
- Start date
flynaked
Repo Field Gear Collector
Georg,
All good points you make. 1941 was a tough year for rifle production in general, I would find it hard to believe that ssr production entirely filled the need in this timeframe personally, but I also don’t know the scale of their production.
I don’t know serial ranges well, but I was told my Ziel-Dialyt 6x was roughly 1939/40 timeframe. I might have some catalogs or adds I can check as well. Catalogs are only so useful though, as often they would still offer older models even though they were no longer advertised. At least that’s the case with gun makers, maybe less true with optics.
All good points you make. 1941 was a tough year for rifle production in general, I would find it hard to believe that ssr production entirely filled the need in this timeframe personally, but I also don’t know the scale of their production.
I don’t know serial ranges well, but I was told my Ziel-Dialyt 6x was roughly 1939/40 timeframe. I might have some catalogs or adds I can check as well. Catalogs are only so useful though, as often they would still offer older models even though they were no longer advertised. At least that’s the case with gun makers, maybe less true with optics.
A point is being missed here. The SS SSR production went to the SS depots and was generally held for “other than” the field deployed Waffen-SS (under control of the army). Waffen-SS weapon procurement was through the Army. You can’t conflate the 2 different issued weapons. Yes, some field Waffen-SS units used SS SSR rifles, but much less than you would expect after 41. Training units solely drew arms from SS depots. So by saying that not all of these 41 and later produced SS SSR rifles were not meant for Waffen-SS units, in fact I’d bet very few. This includes later SS double claws which have only shown up in 1 wartime photo of an ad box SS Volkssturm photo.
Scharfschutzen in the Waffen SS
Georg
The time frame for Your Ziel-Dialyt is correct
Absolut
Senior Member
If I remember correctly Hensoldt had the same serialization method as Zeiss, means they had one single serial block for all types of scope models they had. This allows to date the SS Dialytan scopes (62.XXX serials) pretty close to the SC (starting at 64.XXX) scopes. So if Dave's scope is 56.XXX it would pre-date the SS Dialytan SSR scopes with DH and runes. I'd therefore again vote with that the OM rifles predate the SSR rifles. The question though remains, how much?
Mike
Maybe 10 known original SS OM Sniper photos not more that I am aware of .
Here are 2 more Original Photo from my personal collection of SS OBJECTIVE MOUNT Rifles .
Photo on left shows a SS OM RIFLE with Dialytan 4X
Photo on right shows a SS OM Rifle with Ziel-Dialyt 6X and Mono Pod. I want to point out that the Scopes Front Ring has different placement than the than the known Objective Mount Type Scopes .
Photo on left shows a SS OM RIFLE with Dialytan 4X
Photo on right shows a SS OM Rifle with Ziel-Dialyt 6X and Mono Pod. I want to point out that the Scopes Front Ring has different placement than the than the known Objective Mount Type Scopes .
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Hercules
Senior Member
Really great photos Dave. Thanks for posting. I would like to find out as much information on these rifles possible. Not much out there though. You have made progress here it seems. Not much posted about these rifles.
biggymu
Well-known member
Mike, was this order later rescinded? Why were special contract runs of weapons necessary at later dates for the SS?
biggymu
Well-known member
Dave have any of these monopods ever turned up?
No, this was in force for the entirety of the war. You are under the impression that SS contract guns were for the Waffen SS - They we’re not. Either that or you are not understanding the difference between SS and Waffen SS.
Read the order - the SS was responsible for supplying weapons to the training units, SS Totenkopf units and SS Police units operating under NSDAP orders. Wehrmacht weapons were for Waffen SS units under command of the Army. If SS units were not under command of the Army they were not allowed access to weapons. The SS also used the Army depot repair system while in service of the Wehrmacht.
To bring the point back around, IMO these objective mount rifles were supplied by the army to the SS and the arming of the WaffenSS was why they came about. I wouldn’t put it past the army to scope Gew98m’s and supply them to the SS as well (as seen in Dave’s photo). By the way, the army wasn’t happy about arming the WaffenSS at a time they needed rifles for their own units.
One day documents will show up and end any speculation. They must exist….
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Not that I am aware of Rick . I would give my left leg for an all matching example SS OM Rifle with Mono Pod and Ziel-Dialyt 6X Scope like one in photo .
I can certainly understand wanting as much knowledge as possible , I will only ask one thing in return if You find a SS OM with Mono & Ziel-Dialyt You have defer the rifle to me seeing how you obtained this knowledge by the info/photo that I posted .
OK ??
biggymu
Well-known member
There was some confusion on my part as to where the SS contract weapons ended up. Many of the single rune guns look to have seen combat which would have been, I thought, the Waffen SS. I do understand the order more completely with your explanation.
Hercules
Senior Member
That’s a tall request Dave. I’ve seen the monopod in photos and had not seen a photo where I could make out the 6X Scope. Now to find one for sale. Well that’s another story. Always looking. I think most of these probably ended up in Russia.I can certainly understand wanting as much knowledge as possible , I will only ask one thing in return if You find a SS OM with Mono & Ziel-Dialyt You have defer the rifle to me seeing how you obtained this knowledge by the info/photo that I posted .
Later in the war the Waffen SS probably could get the same snipers as the Heer.
biggymu
Well-known member
For my personal understanding, If the Waffen SS was given all the same equipment as the Heer and were not given weapons from contract runs and depots, who was issued the double and single claw sniper rifles?
Hercules
Senior Member
Do you have or know where this photo can be seen?
