BSW SS OBJECTIVE MOUNT SNIPER RIFLE
- Thread starter Dave Roberts
- Start date
Sauer SS OBJECTIVE MOUNT RIFLE Serial #2591m Bolt m/m
Rifle originally came with no Scope . I know the owner and he asked me if I happened to have a Scope I would part with , which I sold him as the condition matched his rifle perfectly . He told me the Scope snapped right on the rifle
as if it was made for it . Pics were supplied to me by owner after he received the Scope .
Rifle originally came with no Scope . I know the owner and he asked me if I happened to have a Scope I would part with , which I sold him as the condition matched his rifle perfectly . He told me the Scope snapped right on the rifle
as if it was made for it . Pics were supplied to me by owner after he received the Scope .
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biggymu
Well-known member
Dave is the rifle SS marked or just the scope? Can’t tell from the pictures
Rick
No SS Markings anywhere on these Rifles or Scopes
Understood . Just in case your not aware of this , there were 2 types of Objective Mount Sniper Rifle , the ones like these SS OM Sniper Rifles were only used by Waffen SS but there was another type used by the Heer which had different Rings and Bases and Saddle and the Scope was an Ajack 4X90.
Waffen SS OM Rifles can be found with 3 variant Scopes that we are aware of to date , which were Dialytan 4X , Ziel Dialyt 4X and Ziel Dialyt 6X
biggymu
Well-known member
Thank you for the additional information Dave. I have of course seen the period pictures of the OM rifles in use by SS helmeted troops.
Other then some pictures of your BSW and the photos of the example you have included above, I have never seen a complete pictorial study of any other OM sniper rifle, SS or otherwise. Therefore I did not know these rifles lack any type of proofing normally found on most other SS rifles. There was a DH marked example in BBOTW, but I have no idea if that was authentic. Always glad to learn more. It doesn’t follow convention for the SS not to have some type of property mark on their equipment.
Other then some pictures of your BSW and the photos of the example you have included above, I have never seen a complete pictorial study of any other OM sniper rifle, SS or otherwise. Therefore I did not know these rifles lack any type of proofing normally found on most other SS rifles. There was a DH marked example in BBOTW, but I have no idea if that was authentic. Always glad to learn more. It doesn’t follow convention for the SS not to have some type of property mark on their equipment.
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Absolut
Senior Member
To what I understood we have a picture showing SS soldiers with a rifle and bases like this - technically we though don't know if this was an SS order or why and how it actually ended up for a single time in the hands of SS. Theoretically it could had been a Heer OM rifle too where this bases variant just only got pictured in the hands of SS. Please let me know if you have more information, very interesting IMHO. Which of the two patterns does the one I bought as sporter resembles?
flynaked
Repo Field Gear Collector
Georg, yours would be in the same general arrangement of the same types presented here, albeit with an atypical rear base. We have been studying variations of SEM and believe the type shown in the Heer pictures with 4x90 has been found in commercial trim.
I agree I wouldn’t be surprised if we see this pattern of base in army use someday. However, until a single photograph can be presented to refute the ss claim, they do appear to be the end user through whatever means of sourcing that occurred.
I agree I wouldn’t be surprised if we see this pattern of base in army use someday. However, until a single photograph can be presented to refute the ss claim, they do appear to be the end user through whatever means of sourcing that occurred.
Absolut
Senior Member
Clay, I was questioning this especially since it doesn't really fit to my understanding of SS sniper rifles and rifles in general. The SS was cut off from newly made rifles, so they had to use Gew98 rifles, of which they some converted to sniper rifles. And the OM rifles are all pretty early date, and especially they are regular Wehrmacht production rifles. So either the SS got theirs later converted from Wehrmacht rifles (where would they be getting them from? And why would they convert used rifles, without rebuild stamps?), or how else could this work? By end of 1942 they were already speaking with Brünn on the SSDC sniper rifles, so shortly after their SS SSR rifles (based on the proof dates of these rifles). So in which period would they have had them made, for who and by who? Really appreciate thoughts on this, not sure if I simply think in the wrong direction.
biggymu
Well-known member
This was my point also.
There are several possibilities. When the Waffen-SS was granted access to army weapons stock in 1941, and in order to fill the TO&E, certainly sniper rifles would be a part of that. My theory is the Army commissioned these to fill that need, so as not to deliver from any Heer stocks of scoped rifles which were slim. (It was about the same time the Army’s SSR program was started as well.)
From what I remember, many 41 Sauer rifles show up as OM snipers. That may be the initial supply. It’s possible the SS commissioned further examples from existing stocks, or rifles like Dave’s 39 BSW were just unissued stock from depots and sent for conversion from Army stocks. Dave has another photo to post which will just muddy the waters more.
From what I remember, many 41 Sauer rifles show up as OM snipers. That may be the initial supply. It’s possible the SS commissioned further examples from existing stocks, or rifles like Dave’s 39 BSW were just unissued stock from depots and sent for conversion from Army stocks. Dave has another photo to post which will just muddy the waters more.
Here is a photo showing a SS Gew98 Objective Mount Sniper Rifle . This rifle has a Ziel Dialyt 4X with same Rings and Bases as the SS OM RIFLES .
I have a couple more photo that are similar to this one but are different SS Soldier with same type SS GEW98 OM Sniper Rifles I will post as soon as I locate them.
The photo on the right is another SS Gew98 OM Sniper Rifle . The Scope on this SS Gew98 OM Sniper is either Dialytan 4X or the Ziel Dialyt 6X
I believe I have one more SS GEW98 OM Sniper photo but I will need to dig deep to find it , if I find I will post it . Both these photos are already known books and not from my private collection .
I have a couple more photo that are similar to this one but are different SS Soldier with same type SS GEW98 OM Sniper Rifles I will post as soon as I locate them.
The photo on the right is another SS Gew98 OM Sniper Rifle . The Scope on this SS Gew98 OM Sniper is either Dialytan 4X or the Ziel Dialyt 6X
I believe I have one more SS GEW98 OM Sniper photo but I will need to dig deep to find it , if I find I will post it . Both these photos are already known books and not from my private collection .
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Hercules
Senior Member
@Dave Roberts. Do you have any pictures of these?
Yes I do
Hercules
Senior Member
Could you post them? Would go great on here.
Absolut
Senior Member
41 would be the same period the SS SSR sniper rifles date (per firing proof date), so they should fill that gap. And as mentioned, by the end of 42, so just a year later, they were already into SSDC sniper rifles. Police contract would also not make much sense either since they had the Pecar and hunter donation scopes, all on SSR mount.
Dave, your pictures make it even more messed up, but at least I concur to they are both Gew98M. Very interesting is that they both have the bent handle (obviously needed for a scope installed), but neither of them has the bolt handle cutout, so possibly half 98b configuration. To which period do @mrfarb & @bruce98k date the turning down of the bolt handles of the SS Gew98 to K98k conversions, because these rifles therefore need to predate those.
PS: just comes to my mind, what if these Gew98M OM snipers predate even the Gew98 to 98k conversions and were maybe around 1941 updated to K98k configuration. Would explain why we see both length variants. And if the bases anyway obmitted the receiver markings (1920 property stamp) plus they didn't went through an arsenal and only were scoped also no need for SS DH stamps
Edit: just to throw in another argument.. they would only use scopes available at the time of the production as newly made scopes. So if in 1941 the Ziel-Dialyt scopes were anyway no longer available, they would not had been used for sniper rifles by then. This means these rifles must had been made at a point of time where the scopes were available. Does anyone have catalogues for these years to check until when exactly they were available?
biggymu
Well-known member
