Questionable Camos

[M45]

Unquestionable (IMO) DAK

http://www.ebay.com/itm/German-M40-...966229?hash=item1eb7850215:g:pscAAOSwFe5XyvC2

My 'one-looker' DAK.

Just look at the wear on this. The patina is excellent. Age is superb! Color is bang-on. And since I see it as 'legitimate', I will expect no adverse comments, if you please :/

It has that 'used but not abused'/'been there' look that I want to see. In fact, I knew it was authentic from the second I laid my eyes on it

This camo on a worn, beat M40 SD Heer would make some good conversation and would be fairly convincing.

 

[M45]

Ww2 german luftwaffa camoflage

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WW2-GERMAN-...080032?hash=item46543e4de0:g:HJIAAOSw8oFXyyXG

For those of us wanting more Ebay camos, here is an M40 SD Luft with a well-beat exterior that has been enhanced with camo, not a complete coverage mind you. The original crown patina has been left exposed.

 

[bruce98k]

Current thread

Guys while not a helmet expert, seems to me that most of the offerings put up lately have been reviews of good knock-offs.
These copies for lack of a better term seem to have proliferated the market in the last several years.

I have been burned only a few times when I was helmet collecting and would appreciate a few postings of legitimate camos for review.
Of course a detailed explanation can be abbreviated due to the "addition to the knowledge base" for the guys that are copying these helmets.

Some of these facsimiles are so good even to my eye it's becoming difficult.

Thanks,
B.

 

[M45]

Celtic, clear your in-box.


B, there are a few camos I would call good ones mixed in, but this thread is called 'Questionable Camos', or camos that have issues.

It is said that camos are subjective, meaning that each individual makes their own judgement. There is truth to this in one sense, but in another sense it is used to peddle fake camos to the uninitiated.

sub·jec·tive
səbˈjektiv/
adjective
1.
based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions. (google definitions)

GHW2 Camo for discussion:

Pros: It is published. Collectors like it - a beautiful 3 color camo on an M42.

Cons:
-An "exotic Freshie" (watch out !!)
-An elaborate field mod on a late helmet (NS66 6776) is a red flag IMO. [*EDIT: incorrect]
-Near 100% camo coverage despite being a front line helmet.
-Suspicious repetitive dings to the top (made by same instrument ?)
-3 color RAL camo colors are off re: red-brown appears as burgundy, green is also off (typical for fake 3-color schemes)
-rivet paint is in exceptionally good condition with no believable field wear typically seen on rivets.

As I understand it, the 3-color RAL schemes were usually spray painted on en-masse at the unit level and not brushed on as this example. However MANY questionable 3-color schemes are brush painted on with colors usually off - a duplication/approximation of RAL and not actual RAL paint, a clear sign of postwar application IMO.


*EDIT: It was the camo just above this one on a GHW2 post that was an NS. I see this is an EF. Sorry.

 

[acer]

Celtic, clear you in-box.


B, there are a few camos I would call good ones mixed in, but this thread is called 'Questionable Camos', or camos that have issues.

It is said that camos are subjective, meaning that each individual makes their own judgement. There is truth to this in one sense, but in another sense it is used to peddle fake camos to the uninitiated.

sub·jec·tive
səbˈjektiv/
adjective
1.
based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions. (google definitions)

GHW2 Camo for discussion:

Pros: It is published. Collectors like it - a beautiful 3 color camo on an M42.

Cons:
-An elaborate field mod on a late helmet (NS66 6776) is a red flag IMO.
-Near 100% camo coverage despite being a front line helmet.
-Suspicious repetitive dings to the top (made by same instrument ?)
-3 color RAL camo colors are off re: red-brown appears as burgundy, green is also off (typical for fake 3-color schemes)
-rivet paint is in exceptionally good condition with no believable field wear typically seen on rivets.

As I understand it, the 3-color RAL schemes were usually spray painted on en-masse at the unit level and not brushed on as this example. However MANY questionable 3-color schemes are brush painted on with colors usually off - a duplication of RAL and not actual RAL paint, a clear sign of postwar application IMO.

So leave me understand it.... i need my time to read what you are writting....
So do you think this one is a questionable camo??? This is the most silly thing i have ever read here. First, this helmet was sold by Ken N, second, this helmet has been in Paul M´s hands, third, this helmet has belonged to a Norway collector, before sending to me and then to Germany to this collector.
Said this, i think i must take your conclussions more like a funny stupid thing than like a serious answer.

You say, that there are repetitive markt tools, like allways, on the top, but you dont show any pic of the top, hahahahahhahaha

Said all this too, i would really like to see your camo collection, to see the "super" camos you may have.

Sid all this too, i dont think you are a person to questionate those camo, since you dont post anything from your collection....
Keep following your thread because is very fuunnnnnyyyyy

You are my hero !!!!

 

[M45]

This is the most silly thing i have ever read here.

First, this helmet was sold by Ken N,

WOW! So that makes it authentic ? A fair number of Ken's questionable helmets have been featured on this thread; snow camos, red cross, 3-color, etc...

second, this helmet has been in Paul M´s hands,


So what ?

third, this helmet has belonged to a Norway collector, before sending to me and then to Germany to this collector.

Dodgy helmets being passed from collector to collector, from country to country, replicas taking on an authenticity all of their own, acquiring ownership histories, vet acquisition stories, COA's guaranttes, being published, vetted on respectable helmet forums, sold on respectable dealers websites; it has all been done before.


Said this, i think i must take your conclussions more like a funny stupid thing than like a serious answer.

Take them or leave them. It reminds me of lemmings following one another off of a cliff - group suicide, Jim Jones and drinking the cool-aid. Try thinking for yourself for a change. It might surprise you what you can discover about reality.

 

[Hambone]

So leave me understand it.... i need my time to read what you are writting....
So do you think this one is a questionable camo??? This is the most silly thing i have ever read here. First, this helmet was sold by Ken N, second, this helmet has been in Paul M´s hands, third, this helmet has belonged to a Norway collector, before sending to me and then to Germany to this collector.
Said this, i think i must take your conclussions more like a funny stupid thing than like a serious answer.

You say, that there are repetitive markt tools, like allways, on the top, but you dont show any pic of the top, hahahahahhahaha

Said all this too, i would really like to see your camo collection, to see the "super" camos you may have.

Sid all this too, i dont think you are a person to questionate those camo, since you dont post anything from your collection....
Keep following your thread because is very fuunnnnnyyyyy

You are my hero !!!!

Remember as you enjoy our site Acer, and you have been rather snide at times, that you are not treated as you would be if this was WAF or another forum. You know this. M45 is a valued member here, and has long been with us. You have not. You have signed up to take shots at him. At WAF, under such circumstances, you would be attacked by a minion mob, I'd censor your posts, then suspend your account. Instead, you are allowed the uncensored privilege here, because we are transparent, and do not censor, to make your points. Remember those courtesies you enjoy here when speaking of and referencing our site.

As an aside, it is always funny to me to see waftards taking shots at this site who are too cowardly to come try to make their points here. They know that positions here must be substantiated. This is not the baby pool. This is adult swim.

 

[FrankM]

So do you think this one is a questionable camo??? This is the most silly thing i have ever read here. First, this helmet was sold by Ken N, second, this helmet has been in Paul M´s hands, third, this helmet has belonged to a Norway collector, before sending to me and then to Germany to this collector.

I know this camo! But I wonder why no collector seems to want to hold on to it for very long?

 

[nirvana]

I know this camo! But I wonder why no collector seems to want to hold on to it for very long?

Ouch. Hahah.

 

[Hambone]

I know this camo! But I wonder why no collector seems to want to hold on to it for very long?

That's a 1500 lb. gorilla in the room.

 

[acer]

Remember as you enjoy our site Acer, and you have been rather snide at times, that you are not treated as you would be if this was WAF or another forum. You know this. M45 is a valued member here, and has long been with us. You have not. You have signed up to take shots at him. At WAF, under such circumstances, you would be attacked by a minion mob, I'd censor your posts, then suspend your account. Instead, you are allowed the uncensored privilege here, because we are transparent, and do not censor, to make your points. Remember those courtesies you enjoy here when speaking of and referencing our site.

As an aside, it is always funny to me to see waftards taking shots at this site who are too cowardly to come try to make their points here. They know that positions here must be substantiated. This is not the baby pool. This is adult swim.

This is the most interesting thing you have said since i know you, and agree with you 100%, and glad you think it too.
But if you pretend to be a serious and reliable forum, you may have a serious person who lead this thread, and not somebody who doestn have any knowledge ( or at least only his point on view of some helmets that he thinks he knows) the tan camo posted las week and this camo are very real,( BTW, when you copy and paste do it well, because this camo is not a Ns66 as you say in your reply, is an EF62, you can see it for the visor form.)

I dont have anyhting against this man, i came here because somebody told me that here was a man copying and pasting. I must recognize that at first moment i become in red for him, but after keeping here and wacthing how he tries to destroy helmets like the tan and this last Normandy, i must recognise that i find this thread very funny, seeing his arguements

So, im not really interested in this forum, because here nothig is apported, i can open Ebay, and appport something in a forum not specialised in helmets, so if you want to ban me feel free, i leave it in your hands. But i will miss this joker

About why those helmets go from hand to hands is not because nobody finds out is a fake, that only happens in M45´s head. Believe me that if you want to specialize in helmets you may search another "guru" in another case you will have a looooong way.

This helmet, like many others are high valued, this helmet price was 4000 E ( here in Europe) more than 4´5 K USD, they sells for many reasons and the person who sold it to this german guy has much more knowledge and its much more reliable than M45 can be in all his life ( and also has wrotten a bookm and as he says is not an exception for being good).

I have many helmets, that have been in many hands. I bought some of them after buying them in forums or in dealers where they have been for weeks even months, fakes? reading the teory the go from hand to hand .

M45, please, if you are going to try to destroy any of them, i would like you would do with more elegance and inteligence as what you have shown until now, i will be over you

Seriously and to finish,i show here some of my camos, i asked to M45 to do the same and even he hasnt replied in his copy and paste in my last reply, it seems he has nothing interesting to show

 

[acer]

odgy helmets being passed from collector to collector, from country to country, replicas taking on an authenticity all of their own, acquiring ownership histories, vet acquisition stories, COA's produced, being published, vetted on respectable helmet forums; it has all been done before.

Not going to waste my time on you too much time because you dont deserve it. That Ken N would sold it is not important, yes. But at least he has a reputation that you wont have in your life, Paul M? another collector and dealer, who jas probably seen more helmets than you, so if they dont see anyuthing... just you can see it ???!!!!

And finally, believe it or not, if the Norway collector would have seen it as a fake and would have tried to move it, im sure i would have known it before than you could copy and paste it here.

Now i understand why you were banned from so many forums, and not for your intelligence, precisaly....

 

[Hambone]

This is the most interesting thing you have said since i know you, and agree with you 100%, and glad you think it too.
But if you pretend to be a serious and reliable forum, you may have a serious person who lead this thread, and not somebody who doestn have any knowledge ( or at least only his point on view of some helmets that he thinks he knows) the tan camo posted las week and this camo are very real,( BTW, when you copy and paste do it well, because this camo is not a Ns66 as you say in your reply, is an EF62, you can see it for the visor form.)

I dont have anyhting against this man, i came here because somebody told me that here was a man copying and pasting. I must recognize that at first moment i become in red for him, but after keeping here and wacthing how he tries to destroy helmets like the tan and this last Normandy, i must recognise that i find this thread very funny, seeing his arguements

So, im not really interested in this forum, because here nothig is apported, i can open Ebay, and appport something in a forum not specialised in helmets, so if you want to ban me feel free, i leave it in your hands. But i will miss this joker

About why those helmets go from hand to hands is not because nobody finds out is a fake, that only happens in M45´s head. Believe me that if you want to specialize in helmets you may search another "guru" in another case you will have a looooong way.

This helmet, like many others are high valued, this helmet price was 4000 E ( here in Europe) more than 4´5 K USD, they sells for many reasons and the person who sold it to this german guy has much more knowledge and its much more reliable than M45 can be in all his life ( and also has wrotten a bookm and as he says is not an exception for being good).

I have many helmets, that have been in many hands. I bought some of them after buying them in forums or in dealers where they have been for weeks even months, fakes? reading the teory the go from hand to hand .

M45, please, if you are going to try to destroy any of them, i would like you would do with more elegance and inteligence as what you have shown until now, i will be over you

Seriously and to finish,i show here some of my camos, i asked to M45 to do the same and even he hasnt replied in his copy and paste in my last reply, it seems he has nothing interesting to show

So if we censored M45 and banned him for having an opinion different from "conventional wisdom" and your opinion, then this would be a "better" forum? I think we are better off for letting M45 have his say and letting you have yours as well. The members here can make up their own minds without a "moderator" doing that for them.

 

[acer]

So if we censored M45 and banned him for having an opinion different from "conventional wisdom" and your opinion, then this would be a "better" forum? I think we are better off for letting M45 have his say and letting you have yours as well. The members here can make up their own minds without a "moderator" doing that for them.

Nobody speaks about banning to anybody. Just that before speaking he may know what is going to say, because he cant speak about something he doesnt know, he is just playing with another ones helmets. He doesnt know anything about this last helmet, he has said a NS66 and is a EF62, he thinks he knows why those helmets move from one to another collectors and he doesnt have a F....G idea of the many reasons.

And for saying is a bad one he has the real truth to judge or to handle those helmets?

And the mont important thing is that HE DOESNT SHOW HIS COLLECTION HERE SO TO BE TAKEN IN SERIOUS HE MAY SHOW WHAT MAKES TO SPEAK AS HE WAS A TOP COLLECTOR.

My opinion wont be so important because i recognise im not a top collector at the contrary as he do.And i dont like to take part so much in this forum

And if i tell you the truth, i dont like to speak about this person since he is nobody, he thinks he control what he speak, but that´s all, he thinks.....


PUT YOUR HELMETS AS I HAVE DONE AND I WILL CLOSE MY MOUTH AFTER WACTHING IT, IF YOU DONT YOU WONT HAVE ANY CREDIBILITY

 

[Hambone]

Nobody speaks about banning to anybody. Just that before speaking he may know what is going to say, because he cant speak about something he doesnt know, he is just playing with another ones helmets. He doesnt know anything about this last helmet, he has said a NS66 and is a EF62, he thinks he knows why those helmets move from one to another collectors and he doesnt have a F....G idea of the many reasons.

And for saying is a bad one he has the real truth to judge or to handle those helmets?

And the mont important thing is that HE DOESNT SHOW HIS COLLECTION HERE SO TO BE TAKEN IN SERIOUS HE MAY SHOW WHAT MAKES TO SPEAK AS HE WAS A TOP COLLECTOR.

My opinion wont be so important because i recognise im not a top collector at the contrary as he do.And i dont like to take part so much in this forum

And if i tell you the truth, i dont like to speak about this person since he is nobody, he thinks he control what he speak, but that´s all, he thinks.....


PUT YOUR HELMETS AS I HAVE DONE AND I WILL CLOSE MY MOUTH AFTER WACTHING IT, IF YOU DONT YOU WONT HAVE ANY CREDIBILITY

You are afforded the privilege of openly questioning and of being questioned. We all are. Again, the members here can decide who to believe and who has more credibility. Does the collection helmet count mean more credibility? I know guys here with very modest collections who are the most knowledgeable people on German rifles in the world. Thanks and regards,
HB

 

[M45]

Nobody speaks about banning to anybody. Just that before speaking he may know what is going to say, because he cant speak about something he doesnt know, he is just playing with another ones helmets. He doesnt know anything about this last helmet, he has said a NS66 and is a EF62, he thinks he knows why those helmets move from one to another collectors and he doesnt have a F....G idea of the many reasons.

And for saying is a bad one he has the real truth to judge or to handle those helmets?

And the mont important thing is that HE DOESNT SHOW HIS COLLECTION HERE SO TO BE TAKEN IN SERIOUS HE MAY SHOW WHAT MAKES TO SPEAK AS HE WAS A TOP COLLECTOR.

My opinion wont be so important because i recognise im not a top collector at the contrary as he do.And i dont like to take part so much in this forum

And if i tell you the truth, i dont like to speak about this person since he is nobody, he thinks he control what he speak, but that´s all, he thinks.....


PUT YOUR HELMETS AS I HAVE DONE AND I WILL CLOSE MY MOUTH AFTER WACTHING IT, IF YOU DONT YOU WONT HAVE ANY CREDIBILITY

Acer, your continued blathering is getting a bit tedious. People are free to take GHW's helmet photos and comment on them here. You have to get it through your head that I don't care what you or GHW2 thinks about it. We have a general disagreement about what is acceptable and what is not re: camos. Fine. Let's continue critiquing helmets. And I'm not obliged to comply with your demands. My 'credibility' is a non-issue as I see it.

 

[Hambone]

Nobody speaks about banning to anybody. Just that before speaking he may know what is going to say, because he cant speak about something he doesnt know, he is just playing with another ones helmets. He doesnt know anything about this last helmet, he has said a NS66 and is a EF62, he thinks he knows why those helmets move from one to another collectors and he doesnt have a F....G idea of the many reasons.

And for saying is a bad one he has the real truth to judge or to handle those helmets?

And the mont important thing is that HE DOESNT SHOW HIS COLLECTION HERE SO TO BE TAKEN IN SERIOUS HE MAY SHOW WHAT MAKES TO SPEAK AS HE WAS A TOP COLLECTOR.

My opinion wont be so important because i recognise im not a top collector at the contrary as he do.And i dont like to take part so much in this forum

And if i tell you the truth, i dont like to speak about this person since he is nobody, he thinks he control what he speak, but that´s all, he thinks.....


PUT YOUR HELMETS AS I HAVE DONE AND I WILL CLOSE MY MOUTH AFTER WACTHING IT, IF YOU DONT YOU WONT HAVE ANY CREDIBILITY

Well M45 is banned there, and at WAF (as I am, proudly). So Acer, if M45 wants to comment on camo helmets, where is he to do this? I personally want to hear from those who are banned and silenced. Not speaking to the merits of M45's comments, I can saw generally that the truth tends to upset some people far more than blithering.

 

[acer]

Acer, your continued blathering is getting a bit tedious. People are free to take GHW's helmet photos and comment on them here. You have to get it through your head that I don't care what you or GHW2 thinks about it. We have a general disagreement about what is acceptable and what is not re: camos. Fine. Let's continue critiquing helmets. And I'm not obliged to comply with your demands. My 'credibility' is a non-issue as I see it.

You are so patethic and im free to say your credibility is like your personality, pathetic. The only think you can do is copy and paste, you are the tedious part when you have no idea. I have given the oportunity of defending, you can or want, but you havent decided done it.

As i was told by mail by some members is better to avoid you, because the fear i had in a beginning has become a kind child behaviour or vendetta.

Nothing much to speak about you, just have a happy life and keep critizing what you want. Nothing more important than this

ERES UN PATETICO BASTARDO !!

 

[mrfarb]

People generally resort to personal insults when their defenses have run dry. You should step back and make a coherent argument instead of personal insults, it would give you more credibility.

 

[Hambone]

People generally resort to personal insults when their defenses have run dry. You should step back and make a coherent argument instead of personal insults, it would give you more credibility.

This. What is it about camo helmets that makes people foam at the mouth so much? Is it because a regular ole honest combat lid is about $400, and with a nice coat of "camo" it then becomes a $2000+ helmet? I think on any "camo" helmet, the burden is on the helmet, and its owner, to show and persuade that it is original, not the critic's burden to show it fake. This is a simple, common sense rule.

It seems in "camo" helmet collecting, there is more ego, megalomania, GOB rule, etc., than legitimate, objective, discussion. Why?