Questionable Camos

[Hambone]

Are those American helmet nets I can see in the pboto?it's a brilliant picture.

Good eye Deadeye The weave on those looks like Tommy nets. All of the earlier US nets were Brit. I don't think the US had an "issue" US made net until late, in mid/late 1944. Those nets could have been captured from US or Commonwealth troops.

 

[mcorioles]

After becoming acquainted with REX-39's work, I am no longer amazed by such camos. I do not doubt that REX could paint you up one very similar to the 'true DAK' example.

As I mentioned previously, the rivets worn to bare metal right next to pristine conditioned sand texture has me concerned.

Talk to REX. He will probably tell you that he sees nothing on that helmet that he could not replicate (starting with a heavily worn original). And if that is the case, then theoretically no camos are a safe bet.

I think you're giving REX too much credit.Yes Rex is a very good artist.Yes to the new collectors that could be fooled.

I would say the collector in the game for 10 years or more with a focus on camos could easily tell a Rex job.

 

[iron bender]

Good eye Deadeye The weave on those looks like Tommy nets. All of the earlier US nets were Brit. I don't think the US had an "issue" US made net until late, in mid/late 1944. Those nets could have been captured from US or Commonwealth troops.

Definitely Brit nets. As you have said an issue net was not available to USGI's until the war was nearly over. GI nets in the ETO were of Brit manufacture or cut up vehicle nets. PTO nets could be a 200 page book. The late WW2 GI tight weave net may be the only net ever issued to Americans. We went right to covers after WW2. Of course the lucky guys who got to play in Korea 50-53 were mostly still stuck with WW2 gear and no covers. Sandbags made up the bulk of covers during this time.

 

[Nzef1940]

A few babies being thrown out with the bathwater M45?

That DAK lid is fine.

and very likely the Norwegian 'skittle' lid...

Funny how well intentioned revolutions often get out of control.

 

[ZF41 K98k]

A few babies being thrown out with the bathwater M45?

That DAK lid is fine.

and very likely the Norwegian 'skittle' lid...

Funny how well intentioned revolutions often get out of control.

Agreed. This thread used to be good to look at now and then for proper "Questionable camos".... now every one and their aunt is getting posted up as one. GHW being firmly in the firing line - so I take it eBay is awash with all the original camo helmets is it now M45??

Let's leave the personal vendettas out of this and get back on track, if you can.

 

[Hambone]

Agreed. This thread used to be good to look at now and then for proper "Questionable camos".... now every one and their aunt is getting posted up as one. GHW being firmly in the firing line - so I take it eBay is awash with all the original camo helmets is it now M45??

Let's leave the personal vendettas out of this and get back on track, if you can.

The hobby of helmet collecting is much more of a corrupt mess because of moderator censorship, not because of a lack of it. I watched as a couple of (IMHO) megalomaniacal buffoons made sure that the WAF helmet forum a GOB joke. One of those (IMHO) klowns is gone as a mod, which is good. K98k collecting is not a corrupt mess because of transparency and the lack of censorship. Here, we believe that the best information and the truth will prevail with open discussion, debate, and transparency.

I agree with M45 and sometimes I don't. I am right a lot and sometimes I am wrong. But does that, and my position as a moderator (mall cop) give me the "authority" to determine what opinions are correct and what are not and what people here can see and what they can't? I can then sit on my throne and decide whose helmets get critiqued and whose helmets are immune? IMHO, that just creates a forum of corrupt megalomaniac buffoon moderators and dealers lording over their obsequious toadies, i.e., intellectual and ethical Armageddon. That's how we got the Shampain Ruin and XRFacts.

I give my fellow forum members here enough credit to weigh arguments and come to their own conclusions about originality, motives, and agendas. My job as a member is to make my arguments as best I can. My job as moderator is to make sure everyone has an opportunity to present the best arguments and information they can so that each of us can make our own decisions. My job is not to help my friends sell things, help me sell things, or run interference for humpers because I buy things from them. Everyone needs to make sure they are wearing their big boy pants here. This is not a site for lemmings and Nazi trinket whores.

 

[mcorioles]

A few babies being thrown out with the bathwater M45?

That DAK lid is fine.

and very likely the Norwegian 'skittle' lid...

Funny how well intentioned revolutions often get out of control.

I agree.A lot if what I see here are bad camos from e bay and a few from dealers that GHW also agree were bad.Lately though I see many legit camos that are getting criticized.Fair enough,everyone is entitled to their opinion.

IMO even camos that are photographed properly still sometimes need a hands on.Cant tell you how many I've had some reservations about in pictures that I got my hands on that removed any doubt.

NOTHING substitutes for a actual hands on.

 

[M45]

I think you're giving REX too much credit.Yes Rex is a very good artist.Yes to the new collectors that could be fooled.

I would say the collector in the game for 10 years or more with a focus on camos could easily tell a Rex job.

I think that you are under-estimating REX's camo abilities to fool many more than just new collectors. His work is head and shoulders above most of the clumsy fakes in this thread. And given some time, oxidation, several changes of ownership and some original components installed, those helmets will one day be sold as rare originals. It is an inevitability in this hobby.

Yes, new collectors can tell a REX job AFTER being coached on the issues. It is like the C-SS debacle that fooled so many BEFORE the facts were known. They had us snake-fascinated and drinking their C-SS cool-aid and there was not much anyone could do about it because they consistently pointed to things like: vet association, published in textbooks, decal construction much like Pocher-SS, owned by big-wig collectors, and with COA guarantees.

 

[mcorioles]

I think that you are under-estimating REX camo abilities to fool many more than just new collectors. His work is head and shoulders above most of the clumsy fakes in this thread. And given some time, oxidation, several changes of ownership and some original components installed, those helmets will one day be sold as rare originals. It is an inevitability in this hobby.

Yes, new collectors can tell a REX job AFTER being coached on the issues. It is like the C-SS debacle that fooled so many BEFORE the facts we known. They had us snake-fascinated and drinking their C-SS cool-aid and there was not much anyone could do about it because they consistently pointed to things like: vet association, published in textbooks, decal construction much like Pocher-SS, owned by big-wig collectors, and with COA guaranteed.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion,the one thing about Rex's camos is they all have the same appearance. A textured camo,chemical ageing.

More scrutiny is always a good thing but ther are camos on here posted as questionable that are one lookers.

 

[acer]

After becoming acquainted with REX-39's work, I am no longer amazed by such camos. I do not doubt that REX could paint you up one very similar to the 'true DAK' example.

As I mentioned previously, the rivets worn to bare metal right next to pristine conditioned sand texture has me concerned.

Talk to REX. He will probably tell you that he sees nothing on that helmet that he could not replicate (starting with a heavily worn original). And if that is the case, then theoretically no camos are a safe bet.

This only shows that who pretend "to know" a lot about camos, doesnt know anything of them, clean your cristal ball

Byyyyyyyyyyyyyyeeeeeee

 

[deadeye18]

Hambone+Iron bender I always thought the U.S. had their own nets,I'm glad to be leaning something new,cheers!

 

[Peter U]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion,the one thing about Rex's camos is they all have the same appearance. A textured camo,chemical ageing.

More scrutiny is always a good thing but ther are camos on here posted as questionable that are one lookers.

"One looker" that is dangerous terminology, when I discovered the militaria on-line forums, somewhere around 2006, they were using also the term "flying circus team colours", initially I thought they were being sarcastic about ridiculous fake camo helmets but was I wrong.....

 

[mrfarb]

"One looker" that is dangerous terminology, when I discovered the militaria on-line forums, somewhere around 2006, they were using also the term "flying circus team colours", initially I thought they were being sarcastic about ridiculous fake camo helmets but was I wrong.....

I agree, using the term "one looker" on a camo is foolish frankly. Even people saying the aforementioned DAK is good say an "in hand" is critical to finalize the statements that it's real. So, by saying "one looker" by photos is disingenuous if you need an in hand. K98k rifles have the same problem, some rifles simply can't be evaluated from photos. The good thing is that some digital photography enhances errors on 98k's - for helmets I think digital pictures added to the fact that not ever computer monitor will show a helmet the same way can make the process murky.

I think Brian's discussion of the DAK helmet is relevant - he didn't say it was "bad", the word is "questionable", and he backed up his assertion with points on why he thinks that, and frankly it makes sense. I think he's pointing out things that should concern people trying to decide if a camo is good or bad which in my opinion is helpful. In the end it's a judgement call, and everyone is going to have a different judgement- so you buy what you feel is good.

I bet if a good camo collector went though another collectors helmets he'd find some that he felt were bad no matter how advanced he was.

 

[mcorioles]

I agree, using the term "one looker" on a camo is foolish frankly. Even people saying the aforementioned DAK is good say an "in hand" is critical to finalize the statements that it's real. So, by saying "one looker" by photos is disingenuous if you need an in hand. K98k rifles have the same problem, some rifles simply can't be evaluated from photos. The good thing is that some digital photography enhances errors on 98k's - for helmets I think digital pictures added to the fact that not ever computer monitor will show a helmet the same way can make the process murky.

I think Brian's discussion of the DAK helmet is relevant - he didn't say it was "bad", the word is "questionable", and he backed up his assertion with points on why he thinks that, and frankly it makes sense. I think he's pointing out things that should concern people trying to decide if a camo is good or bad which in my opinion is helpful. In the end it's a judgement call, and everyone is going to have a different judgement- so you buy what you feel is good.

I bet if a good camo collector went though another collectors helmets he'd find some that he felt were bad no matter how advanced he was.

I guess it depends on who's calling a helmet a " one looker"

The same dangerous terminology could be applied to "questionable" camo.Arent they all depending on who is making the determination?

Any hobby where a decent amount of money is involved is going to be infiltrated by people trying to make a buck.The best we can do is hold every helmet up to scrutiny no matter WHO owns it.

I found this out the hard way a few times,having some doubts about a helmet but dismissing my own doubts because of the previous esteemed collectors that owned them before me.

 

[NathanLM]

WW2 WWII GERMAN M40 NORMANDY CAMO HELMET SHELL - SIZE 66

REX-39 CAMO RESTORATION

This is a WW2 German M40 helmet shell. No liner and no decals. The helmet has tan camo paint with brown and green accents applied over feldgrau. The interior is feldgrau. The surface shows wear with numerous scratches and paint chips. There's a small bullet-sized "ding" on the right temple - barely noticeable but there. Shell size is 66 cm. Lot number and maker's mark stamped in the rear of the shell are barely visible, but I believe it to be a Quist. Please scroll down to the pictures, then return to the item description.

This is an authentic WW2 manufactured German helmet, but the painting and aging are newly done. The techniques used on this helmet have taken years to perfect and the results are incredible. This helmet looks absolutely dead-on real whether viewed from across the room, in-hand, or even under a magnifying glass. I guarantee this helmet to be one of the finest repaints available anywhere. Here's your opportunity to own what appears to be a real Normandy camo helmet shell at a fraction of the cost. Also included are a set of washers and split pins that have been painted to match.

To prevent resale of my work as original, the interior is marked as a repaint. The marking will not be visible with a liner installed.

US $450.00

This replica demonstrates definitively IMO that camos can no longer be judged by appearances alone (as they were early in the collecting era prior to fake proliferation). That is why 'gut feelings', 'good feelings', COA paperwork, congered Vet association, big-name collector/dealer association and forum approval are not valid means to determine authenticity.

I think this one might deserve some more discussion pointing out any tell tale signs of Rex's handy work. I am certainly just a camo novice, but this one looks SCARY good.

 

[vonrall]

IMO if a helmet is painted with camo and AGED it's a fake. A painted mark to identify it as such inside is a joke and removed in a few minutes . It's not a restoration (which means it was restored back to it's known original appearance) it a new creation on an original helmet body. The only way these fakes would be acceptable is that they are identified as such in a visible spot with an engraving deeply in the metal. All these fabrications are going to do over the long term is further damage the hobby. FAKE IS FAKE .

 

[Hambone]

I guess it depends on who's calling a helmet a " one looker"

The same dangerous terminology could be applied to "questionable" camo.Arent they all depending on who is making the determination?

Any hobby where a decent amount of money is involved is going to be infiltrated by people trying to make a buck.The best we can do is hold every helmet up to scrutiny no matter WHO owns it.

I found this out the hard way a few times,having some doubts about a helmet but dismissing my own doubts because of the previous esteemed collectors that owned them before me.

This. I experienced the same bewilderment at the same time (2005-2006) when I discovered WAF. I actually thought at first that I was reading page after page of sarcasm as the waftarded "wow!" and "one looker!"'d certain helmets. Then I realized what I was seeing was a censored mutual back patting klub and ongoing infomercial for a few people. It was almost comical, but for the people getting ripped off and the misinformation spewing out of that place. As Peter noted, the most profoundly ridiculous shilling I saw was the "flying circus team colors" "explanation" for a rather absurd and obvious fake (60s biker dope inspired artwork).

IMHO, one look no further than the ZAM champagne rune thread (google it) to see the toadies and waftarded waging war on the truth and anyone not adhering to the party line. It seemed at such places that the important criteria was WHO owned the helmet or was selling it, not WHAT the helmet looked like. That's precisely why we don't censor opinions here.

 

[ZF41 K98k]

IMO if a helmet is painted with camo and AGED it's a fake. A painted mark to identify it as such inside is a joke and removed in a few minutes . It's not a restoration (which means it was restored back to it's known original appearance) it a new creation on an original helmet body. The only way these fakes would be acceptable is that they are identified as such in a visible spot with an engraving deeply in the metal. All these fabrications are going to do over the long term is further damage the hobby. FAKE IS FAKE .

Well said.

 

[Hambone]

IMO if a helmet is painted with camo and AGED it's a fake. A painted mark to identify it as such inside is a joke and removed in a few minutes . It's not a restoration (which means it was restored back to it's known original appearance) it a new creation on an original helmet body. The only way these fakes would be acceptable is that they are identified as such in a visible spot with an engraving deeply in the metal. All these fabrications are going to do over the long term is further damage the hobby. FAKE IS FAKE .

Obviously. However there are plenty out there not Rex who are humping and fabricating "camos" which are blessed and praised as originals. It would be as if Rex starting trickling out his work and had a GOB network blessing his stuff. Any critics would be rebuked, attacked, censored and banned. Then, the blessed fakes would be used to authenticate new fakes. Does anyone not believe that is going on?

This is why Ruffin's candor and posts are welcome here by me as are M45s. If you don't agree, make your case.

Cheers,
HB

 

[M45]

This is why Ruffin's candor and posts are welcome here by me as are M45s. If you don't agree, make your case.

Hear, Hear! One of the Greats of Western Civilization is the democratic process. This is contrasted with the totalitarian dictatorships that destroy free thought and thus creativity. The end results of the two are a stark contrast.

A few babies being thrown out with the bathwater M45?

That DAK lid is fine.

and very likely the Norwegian 'skittle' lid...

Funny how well intentioned revolutions often get out of control.

How many dozens of questionable camos have been critiqued in this thread, and suddenly a few favorites go under the light and now we are way 'out of control' ?

Agreed. This thread used to be good to look at now and then for proper "Questionable camos".... now every one and their aunt is getting posted up as one. GHW being firmly in the firing line - so I take it eBay is awash with all the original camo helmets is it now M45??

Let's leave the personal vendettas out of this and get back on track, if you can.

Many ebay lids have been critiqued here as well, but that place is by and large a child's playpen in regard to camos; obviously clumsy attempts at legitimacy. If you want to gaze at them, be my guest. But I feel as if our limited time on this Earth can be better spent on the very well done reproductions; some of these IMO reside on GHW.

I agree.A lot if what I see here are bad camos from e bay and a few from dealers that GHW also agree were bad.Lately though I see many legit camos that are getting criticized.Fair enough,everyone is entitled to their opinion.

IMO even camos that are photographed properly still sometimes need a hands on.Cant tell you how many I've had some reservations about in pictures that I got my hands on that removed any doubt.

NOTHING substitutes for a actual hands on.

"Legit camos" get criticized because they are only "legit" to some of us. No lid should be immune to criticisms, whether yours, mine, GHW/k98k members or mods.