How did I do? My first K98 - JP Sauer 1942

[J3Colt]

Hey guys, this is my first K98, I've been mostly a P.38 guy, but I bought a cheap Yugo M48 and it started me on my quest to find a nice German K98K.

I'm familiar with Waffenamts and codes from the P.38 world and know enough as to what is desirable and what is less valuable. Hopefully, I did okay here with this find.

My understanding is that it's a 1942 JP Sauer (CE 42 on receiver) that came from an estate collection of a VA surgeon. All of the numbers are matching on every single piece that is marked: 9704, 704, and even 04 on the cleaning rod.

There are no import marks anywhere on this and the stock is solid (no duffle bag cut). The stock matches with 9704 on the bottom.

Overall, the finish is in nice shape with a few minor rough spots on the sling attachment barrel band. The stock is near perfect.

Please let me know what you think.

Thanks for looking,
John

 

[J3Colt]

More pics:

 

[ugafx4]

How much are you into this for? I am not a JPS expert, but the stock looks cleaned at least and some of the bluing looks weird. I have never seen two numbers on a rear band like that. I think it is forced matched.

 

[ugafx4]

Your bolt has some issues. Here is a link to a rifle on the picture reference study... http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?1739-New-Member-Here-Needs-Help-With-CE-42-Some-Questions

Compare the rifle in the link with yours.

 

[J3Colt]

How much are you into this for? I am not a JPS expert, but the stock looks cleaned at least and some of the bluing looks weird. I have never seen two numbers on a rear band like that. I think it is forced matched.

I'm only $850 into it, so I didn't go crazy...thanks for the info!

 

[D-K]

I'm only $850 into it, so I didn't go crazy...thanks for the info!

This rifle has been sanded and refinished. The bolt body is fake; the lower barrel band is fake; the bayonet lug is wrong: should be blued in this range; the cleaning rod is reproduction. The sight ladder has been blued and there are likely other reblued parts as well.

 

[J3Colt]

So, in other words this is worthless ?

 

[tanker1]

So, in other words this is worthless ?

Certainly not worth 850.00! Ron

 

[J3Colt]

Well I guess I'll shoot it then... Thanks for the info!

 

[J3Colt]

I really appreciate all of the input you guys provided. I had visited here and a few other places before buying, trying to steer clear of getting a RC or import marked rifle, or mismatched parts, but I didn't realize there was as much fakery going on with these rifles as there is. It's a shame that people try to doctor up these great pieces of history. Overall, I do love this rifle, but will probably stick to the P.38 world where I've been a little more successful.

 

[heavy_mech]

...I didn't realize there was as much fakery going on with these rifles as there is. It's a shame that people try to doctor up these great pieces of history. Overall, I do love this rifle...

I'm no where near as good at spotting fake bits as these guys, but in the recent spectrum yours isn't brutal. At least you didn't pay $2k+ for some obscene, clowned up rifle. If you're happy with it and she turns out to be a good shooter, then you didn't do TOO badly. How much "story" did you get for your $850? I'm actually much more fascinated by the ridiculous stories the sellers concoct than the actual monkey mechanics of "the build".... Except for DCR! I'd LOVE to see that operation in action!

 

[S/42]

To be bluntly honest, I did not see a single part on the rifle that hadn't been messed with, in terms of fraudulent serials, wrong period parts and finishes, and refinished (metal and wood). I doubt that anything apart from the barrelled action was ever together as a rifle in 1942, heck, even in 2002.

Looks like an RC rifle someone refinished - incorrectly. I would DEFINITELY be asking my money back as it's not a $200 rifle let alone $850

 

[heavy_mech]

....it's not a $200 rifle let alone $850

I have to push back on this finally. I keep seeing some of you guys saying "not worth $xxx" and add a ridiculously low value. $200.???? Really? Not worth $200? I'll take that bet all day. I don't know what fantasy island you guys live on where YOU all seem to find complete matching bringback rifles for a few hundred dollars??? Please let me know. Not saying they're NEVER out there to be found, but I'm also not lowballing (robbing) some old widow to steal her dead husbands bringback. Sorry if you think I'm being too blunt, but this insane lowball nonsense is just that to me.

Really, honestly... tell me where all these cheap rifles are??? I'm sure there are many other people who would like to know.

edit - I'll add this. I do agree with you he overpaid. I'll also agree there is some (a lot) of badness with the serialized parts.

 

[tsmgguy]

I have to push back on this finally..... Really, honestly... tell me where all these cheap rifles are??? I'm sure there are many other people who would like to know.

edit - I'll add this. I do agree with you he overpaid. I'll also agree there is some (a lot) of badness with the serialized parts.

You just gotta remember that these are people with no money on the table. Their opinions are just that, worth exactly what they cost, but maybe a better response would be, "I've seen these sell for this much up to this much."

No one can resist crowing about a bargain. Or a steal.

I think that J3Colt took all of this very well, especially considering that he's been scammed.

I was fortunate to find a very nice Sauer & Sohn K98. Maybe some pics of it would help to show some of the things to look for on most wartime K98s. First, there should be a radius between the bolt handle flat on which the serial number is stamped and the bolt body. If this is missing, it often means that the old serial number was ground away. Then, there should be a tiny flat on the top of the bolt shroud, on which another serial number is stamped. If this flat is large or rounded off, again it often is a sign of tampering. Last, the original milling should be undisturbed in the safety lever where the serial number is stamped.

 

[nirvana]

I guess I'm one of those guys. Maybe the rifle is worth $200 to someone, but I wouldn't pay $200 for it. Seriously. If it was on a table at a guns show, I'd pass for two hundred. If others want to pay that for it, feel free, capitalism and all that. You'll be walking away from the table with a bunch of ground on, restamped and refinished parts. If you are cool with that, cool. I'm not judging.

It's like collecting coins. I guess you could buy fake ones just because they happen to be made of silver, but then you wouldn't be collecting coins, you'd instead be accumulating scrap metal. The fake has value for being silver, but it's still a fake.

Does the gun safely fire? Sure. But so does a ruger 10/22. Does it look pretty? Sure, but so does a well blued ruger 10/22. If I'm buying a historic or collectible rifle, I wouldn't want one that's been poked on hard by a forger. Other people feel otherwise, and there is nothing wrong with that.

I'm not saying originals are cheap, nor am I being critical of anyone here, I just have different ideas when collecting I guess.

 

[J3Colt]

I'm no where near as good at spotting fake bits as these guys, but in the recent spectrum yours isn't brutal. At least you didn't pay $2k+ for some obscene, clowned up rifle. If you're happy with it and she turns out to be a good shooter, then you didn't do TOO badly. How much "story" did you get for your $850? I'm actually much more fascinated by the ridiculous stories the sellers concoct than the actual monkey mechanics of "the build".... Except for DCR! I'd LOVE to see that operation in action!

The story I got from the seller on Gun Broker was this came from an estate collection of a surgeon who worked in a Veterans Admin hospital in Montana. I asked questions to the seller and he assured me that it wasn't a RC, all the serial numbers matched with the exception of the bolt. Buyer beware, my fault.

I'm now looking for a 33/40, but I'm very wary of buying online again from a private seller... I read about the coltgrabber guy, and I'm more educated than before, but far from being confident about spotting the polished turds.

 

[Warrior1354]

J3Colt be very careful in buying a G33/40 mountain carbine. I would do alot of research first before investing in one. Those pieces are highly faked by many people due too so many collectors interested in them. Most of them that I have come across had problems be it sanded, renumbered, or bubba pieces. And if you do find a nice one they are not cheap either depending on what code and year the G33/40 carbine is too. They run up between 2K-3K sometimes more depending on the seller or dealer.

And sorry too hear about you getting burn on the Sauer rifle if there is a way too get your money back I would do it. And I will give you a little advise on collecting and this came from a big collector too me. Number one buy the gun or item not the story unless there is paperwork too prove it, two buy the best condition piece if you can the best ones will always hold their value more, three do your research and be patient good deals come up you just have too be knowledgeable and be ready, and four have fun.

Don't hit yourself for being burn either every collector out there has a horror story too tell. Me I got burned on M1 garand that was a re-welded receiver piece from the 70s that I bought fresh out of high-school. Lost money on it and sold it too someone that didn't care and just wanted a shooter piece even though it was a re-welded type. Now I own two and know what too look for.

 

[J3Colt]

J3Colt be very careful in buying a G33/40 mountain carbine. I would do alot of research first before investing in one. Those pieces are highly faked by many people due too so many collectors interested in them. Most of them that I have come across had problems be it sanded, renumbered, or bubba pieces. And if you do find a nice one they are not cheap either depending on what code and year the G33/40 carbine is too. They run up between 2K-3K sometimes more depending on the seller or dealer.

And sorry too hear about you getting burn on the Sauer rifle if there is a way too get your money back I would do it. And I will give you a little advise on collecting and this came from a big collector too me. Number one buy the gun or item not the story unless there is paperwork too prove it, two buy the best condition piece if you can the best ones will always hold their value more, three do your research and be patient good deals come up you just have too be knowledgeable and be ready, and four have fun.

Don't hit yourself for being burn either every collector out there has a horror story too tell. Me I got burned on M1 garand that was a re-welded receiver piece from the 70s that I bought fresh out of high-school. Lost money on it and sold it too someone that didn't care and just wanted a shooter piece even though it was a re-welded type. Now I own two and know what too look for.

Good advice! Thank you.

I'm now reading everything I can about 33/40s, and wow, there is a lot to know before putting down that amount of cash!

This is the first time I've been scammed in 25 years.

 

[tanker1]

Warrier is correct. I think we all have been fooled at some point and to what degree, it varies. For me, it was on a dagger I bought years before the internet. I got a portion of my money back but it still hurt.
First, if you see something, by all means PM someone here or post for opinion. Yo will save yourself a lot of heartache. These folks will not steer yo uwrong.

J3Colt be very careful in buying a G33/40 mountain carbine. I would do alot of research first before investing in one. Those pieces are highly faked by many people due too so many collectors interested in them. Most of them that I have come across had problems be it sanded, renumbered, or bubba pieces. And if you do find a nice one they are not cheap either depending on what code and year the G33/40 carbine is too. They run up between 2K-3K sometimes more depending on the seller or dealer.

And sorry too hear about you getting burn on the Sauer rifle if there is a way too get your money back I would do it. And I will give you a little advise on collecting and this came from a big collector too me. Number one buy the gun or item not the story unless there is paperwork too prove it, two buy the best condition piece if you can the best ones will always hold their value more, three do your research and be patient good deals come up you just have too be knowledgeable and be ready, and four have fun.

Don't hit yourself for being burn either every collector out there has a horror story too tell. Me I got burned on M1 garand that was a re-welded receiver piece from the 70s that I bought fresh out of high-school. Lost money on it and sold it too someone that didn't care and just wanted a shooter piece even though it was a re-welded type. Now I own two and know what too look for.

 

[mauser99]

I would say if you just bought it and the seller offered an inspection or return contact him send him this link and ask for a refund. Not all sellers are scammers. Some actually believe the stories they are passing along as they were given the same story. It might have been true. Vets bought stuff as well. Estate items are no guarantee that they are legit. The more buying you do the more you will see this. I did a direct vet buy once of a decease vet and he had tons of fake stuff. So that's where the lines get blurred. Sometimes the stories are made up sometimes not. But the item not the story. The bolt flat has been ground down a lot and re-numbered. There is usually always a little raised pad there where the #'s are. If that's gone big RED FLAG.... Try the civil approach as far as a return. If he says no that caulk it up to a learning experience. An 850 dollar degree in mausers..