RESEARCH PROJECT - Amberg 1916-1918

[Loewe]

Wolfgang brought up a subject that I think is worthwhile pursuing, quite a few years ago, in 2009, several collectors, Wolfgang and I included, noticed a peculiar series of markings on the left side of Amberg receivers, it seems to occur only on late 1916 through 1918 Gewehr98 production, though it is possible it shows up earlier.

This will be an effort to collect codes and establish a pattern or purpose to this pattern. As reports come in, I will update this thread with the observed codes and perhaps we can make something of them. They seem to relate to the date of manufacture, possibly related to the steel lot used to make the receiver, or possibly something related to the making of the receiver. The only thing that is fairly clear is the last digit seems to correspond to the date of the receiver, - the last character of the three character code usually matches the date of the receiver (1917 dated receivers end with a "7" in the code, etc...)

Below are two examples, one from mid-1916 (8854 h) without a code and another from 1917 with the code, but we would like all information about the rifle if possible, but for this purpose the code is most important.

Please consider disassembling any Amberg you own or have access to, and provide images of the following: full serial, code under serial, right receiver and barrel code. Once done I will add it to the list below, I want any Amberg made rifle regardless of date, but 1916-1918 are of particular interest.

We will start with my original list, which began and ended in 2009, I will go through my database looking for others, and will add them as I can. Obviously, it is no "fun" doing this alone, if others help I will put more effort in this, if not I will unstick it and let it linger as it did 6 years ago... Its is worth a try though!

Amberg Gew.98 Receiver Markings​

1915 Amberg 7648 h - RR- C/G C/J C/J (BC- BJ.20 C/J x3) (Chris)
1915 Amberg 2966 i - RR- C/G C/J C/J (BC- OS 7063 C/J X3) (LR)

1916 Amberg 2596 - 0 Under = (S)
1916 Amberg 4388 a - 0 Under = (S)
1916 Amberg 6816 b - 0
1916 Amberg 8339 b - 0
1916 Amberg 5712 f - RR- C/G C/O C/O 0 Under = (K) (BC-BO 113 C/O x3) (MichaelWC post #84)(Sam)
1916 Amberg 9734 f - 0 Under = (K)
1916 Amberg 9924 f - 0 Under = (K)
1916 Amberg 3246 g - 0
1916 Amberg 4745 g - 0 Under = (K) (BC-BJ.31)
1916 Amberg 7122 g - 0 / bolt 0/H/s Under = (K) (BC-BJ 29)
1916 Amberg 4177 h - 0 / bolt O/G Under = (K)
1916 Amberg 8854 h - 0 Under = (s)
1916 Amberg 3368 l - 0
1916 Amberg 7916 n - 0 Under = (G)
1916 Amberg 2206 q - 0 Under = (G)
1916 Amberg 8398 q - 0 Under = (G) (BC-KR.315)
1916 Amberg 9529 q - 0 Under = (G) (BC-BO 457)
1916 Amberg 2122 r - NA Under = (G)
1916 Amberg 2524 s - 0 Under = (G) (BC-KR 336)
1916 Amberg 5817 s - RR- C/G C/O C/O (0) / Under = (G) (BC- BO.873 C/O x3)
1916 Amberg 7286 s - RR- C/G C/O C/O bolt (C/G /Afp / C/G)
1916 Amberg 2750 t - 2L6 / bolt back stem - K/V Under = (G)(BC-KR 353)
1916 Amberg 2816 t - 3L6-0 Under = (G)
1916 Amberg 8900 t - 6L6
1916 Amberg 1234 u - 7L6 Under = (G)
1916 Amberg 3982 u - 8L6 Under = (G)

1916 Amberg 1615 2 - 0 Under = (K) (Erfurt built sterngewehr)

1917 Amberg 4758 - 9M6-0 / bolt 7M6 Under = (G)
1917 Amberg 9191 - RR- C/G C/O C/O (1A7-0) / (BC- BJ.821 C/R x3)
1917 Amberg 2992 a - 3A7-0 Under = (G)
1917 Amberg 535 b - 5A7-0 Under = (G)
1917 Amberg 6648 b - RR C/G C/O C/O 7A7-0 Under = (G) (BC-KR.376 C/O x3) (Chris)
1917 Amberg 8136 b - 8A7-0 Under = (none?) (BC-KR.370)
1917 Amberg 3315 c - 8A7-0 Under = (G) (BC- KR 377 C/O x3)
1917 Amberg 3198 d - NA Under = (G)
1917 Amberg 5344 e - 1C7-0
1917 Amberg 346 f - 3C7-0 / bolt 8B7 Under = (G)
1917 Amberg 1827 f - RR C/G C/O C/O (BC-OS 4188 C/O x3) (post# 86 Moosedog)
1917 Amberg 4267 h - 2D7-0
1917 Amberg 7649 i - 8D7-0 / bolt 8D7 Under = G? (picture lacks clarity)
1917 Amberg 2401 n - 8F7-0 /bolt 5F7 Under = (blank "O" off to side) (BC - BO.534)
1917 Amberg 6019 n - 1G7-0 / bolt 9F7
1917 Amberg 103 p - 6G7-0
1917 Amberg 659 p - 6H7-0
1917 Amberg 2853 p - bolt K5 / 7G7 / 0BS
1917 Amberg 2866 p -RR- C/A C/O C/O - (C/J /Afp / C/J) 8G7-0 / bolt 7G7 (BC- BO.742 C/O x3) (Sam-Cyrus)
1917 Amberg 4641 p - 1H7-0
1917 Amberg 6536 p - 8G7-0 Under = (G)
1917 Amberg 8061 r - 5H7-O (BC- BO.772 C/O) (suffix in doubt, may be v-block)
1917 Amberg 9076 r – 1J7-0 (BC- BO.277 C/A)
1917 Amberg 9446 r – 9H7-0 (BC- BO.501 C/A)
1917 Amberg 1140 s - 8H7-0 Under = (G) (BC- BO.228 C/A)
1917 Amberg 729 t - 5J7-0 Under = (G) (BC- BO.84/38 C/A x3) (BC may be counterstamped)
1917 Amberg 4200 t - 8J7-0 Under = (G)
1917 Amberg 7715 t - 8J7-0 Under = (G)
1917 Amberg 9796 t - 2K7-0 Under = (G) (BC- BJ.877)
1917 Amberg 233 u - 2K7-0
1917 Amberg 4287 u - RR- n/a, (Gl.V) (Hale1940)
1917 Amberg 8762 u - 5K7-0 (BC- BO.299 Afp C/Ax3) (Gl.V) (Sam)
1917 Amberg 9354 u - RR-n/a, (BC- BO.339 Afp C/Ax3) (BigShell)
1917 Amberg 1062 w - 2L7-0 Under = G (3/4 view, looks like a “G”)
1917 Amberg 2441 w - 2L7-0
1917 Amberg 7808 w – 6L7-0 Under = G (3/4 view, looks like a “G”)
1917 Amberg 4879 x - 4L7-0 Under = (G)
1917 Amberg 9422 x - RR- C/J C/A C/O 2L7-0 / bolt 1M7 BF- C/J /Afp / C/J)(BC- BJ.370 C/A x3) (Gl.V) (LR)
1917 Amberg 1956 y - RR- C/J C/A C/O EWB (egun)

1918 Amberg 738 - 4B8-0 Under= NA (postwar)
1918 Amberg 2782 - 9L7-0
1918 Amberg 3681 - 6M7-0 Under = G
1918 Amberg 6507 - 7M7-0 Under = G (BC- OS 4557)
1918 Amberg 8292 - 2A8-0
1918 Amberg 9747 - NA Under = G
1918 Amberg 3553 a - 4A8-0 Under = G
1918 Amberg 8438 b - 1M7-0 Under = G
1918 Amberg 7278 c - 3M7-0 / bolt 4F6 (possible re-number)
1918 Amberg 2459 d – 3D8-0
1918 Amberg 3076 d - 4D8-0 / bolt 1C8 Under = G
1918 Amberg 6339 d - NA Under = G
1918 Amberg 7457 d - 6D8-0 / bolt 4D8
1918 Amberg 9645 d - RR- C/J C/A C/O bolt 6D8 (C/J /Afp / C/J) (blued receiver) (Gl.V) (Wolfgang)
1918 Amberg 4568d - RR- unclear (EWB)
1918 Amberg 4663 e - 4E8-0 / bolt 1E8 (BC-BO 176 C/A) (Tonino)
1918 Amberg 4842 d - RR- C/J C/A C/O
1918 Amberg 5293 e - 2E8-0 / bolt 9D8 underside = G (Absolut)
1918 Amberg 9042 e - n/a Under = G
1918 Amberg 9240 e - 7E8-0
1918 Amberg 1117 f - RR- C/J C/A C/O (6E8-0) / (BC- OS.4548 C/A x3)(blued receiver) (Gl.V) (SAM)
1918 Amberg 2956 f - RR- C/J C/A C/O (bolt - C/J Afp / C/J - 1E8) (Bernd)
1918 Amberg 7153 f - RR- C/J C/A C/S (5F6-0) / (BC- BO.178 C/A x3) G98M (Jory)
1918 Amberg 2199 g - 2H8-0 / bolt 5G8
1918 Amberg 4751 g - 7A8-0
1918 Amberg 6404 g - 3J8-0 / bolt 3F8 Under = G
1918 Amberg 9554 g - 5J8-0
1918 Amberg 9613 g - NA Under = G

 

[davidmi1]

Amberg 1916 8339 b

Amberg 1916 8339 b

 

[Loewe]

Thanks, - added!

Amberg 1916 8339 b

 

[Amberg]

From a fellow collector over here:
Amberg 1918, 2732 (no suffix) 9L7 O

 

[Loewe]

Thanks Wolfgang, - my progress on the trends work for Amberg has gone well, by tomorrow I should have most of the war time codes, that are available in my database, for the post. I will update yours then, as i included the rifle here in my trends.

It would be nice if we could get some help on this small project, if you have a 1916-1918 Amberg think about stripping it down and getting the barrel code, this batch number, and under the receiver, between the recoil block and barrel there is usually a character, usually a "S" or "G", that would be good to see also. Working my trends of Amberg I have also taken an interest in stocks, a number of two-piece stocks show up and remarkable consistency in features (TD & grips) have shown up. If anyone has a Amberg with an original stock from 1916-1918 that would be of great interest also.

Amberg is a damn fine maker, certainly the best of the "government" owned, the quality rivals the commercial makers.

 

[Slash]

Here is one I can contribute; 1917 Amberg Serial Number 346f - Receiver Markings: 3C7-O

Attached a couple of pics here and am fairly confident this is a good identification on the receiver stamping. In person and under magnification the C has a small serif at the top. I am not sure what you are looking for as far as the "Under = G" marking and some of the other information. I can certainly take additional photographs or provide other details as/if needed.

 

[mrfarb]

My 1916 Amberg ser. 9734f has an "O" only, I can just see it in one of my existing photos of it.

 

[Loewe]

Thanks Slash & Mike, maybe you can do the right receiver Slash? Is the barrel Bavarian or a postwar replacement? Two main things I track are RR and BC's, if yours are readable and original to mfg, I would like to record them.

I had Mike's well recorded, BC, RR and stock, though I did not have the "0" recorded, you can see the "K" under the receiver (the letter varies, usually a "G", sometimes poorly marked, sometimes an "S", - the only reason I record them is there seems to be a possible pattern, the letter changes as production progresses. It might mean nothing, but as so few are recorded, I thought I would include the question.

Tomorrow i will try and update this thread, I added both to my trends sheet. Thanks to both of you!

Here is one I can contribute; 1917 Amberg Serial Number 346f - Receiver Markings: 3C7-O

Attached a couple of pics here and am fairly confident this is a good identification on the receiver stamping. In person and under magnification the C has a small serif at the top. I am not sure what you are looking for as far as the "Under = G" marking and some of the other information. I can certainly take additional photographs or provide other details as/if needed.

 

[Loewe]

I finished trending Amberg 1916-1918, this is the result of the batch code aspect. I will add 1915 when I finish 1915, but I worked backward because the codes seem to start in 1916.

Now that I have spent so much time working on Amberg's trends, I would ask those that own one to provide what data they might have. I am in particular hunting for right receiver (RR), barrel coding (BC) and stock and component acceptance patterns. Stocks 1916-1918 in particular, as that was the period of wood substitution, grips and take downs were added, it is also the period two piece stocks show up, both wood types are known, but beech is much more common 2-pc.

I must say that although I have recorded hundreds of Amberg rifles over the last 15 years or so, the poor quality of the photograph taking sure cuts down on the potential value they have to research, many are little value beyond serial range... but I guess the upside to that is had all been valuable, I would still be working on 1916-1918, as it was it took hours to get this far.

Thanks to those that have contributed so far, I hope others will join us in this effort. I am especially looking for corner stone rifles, rifles of exceptional value to be used as guideposts for others around them. If you have a factory original rifle (condition is less important than factory matching), your help would be especially helpful.

 

[Loewe]

I just added the lower character we are looking for, the marking is under the receiver, the rotation can vary, but most receivers have a character here, usually S, K, or G.

 

[Amberg]

I never paid attention to that lower character. Looks like I have to strip down my Ambergs once more. But that will be a good opportunity to test my new camera with macro settings.
Thanks!

 

[Slash]

Paul,

The barrel is the original Amberg Bavarian with proofs and rampant lion. The barrel code is RJ320. The stamp under the receiver is a poorly struck G. The stock is original and numbered as the rifle complete with finger grips and the TD device. Per your request I have attached a couple of pics of the right side receiver.

For what it's worth or from my perspective this is an interesting rifle. It is a Modified Gew98 mit sS Visier (Gew98M) with applied 1920 property stamp and is all matching (including bolt) although some small parts may be Depot force matched. The stock also bears the stylized CL > 6 Cassel Depot approval in two locations similar to the example shown on pages 120 and 121 of Karabiner 98k Volume I. The stock is 1920 property marked as well. Other depot markings including Simson Eagle 6 are also stamped to some parts. I think I have answered your questions but if you would like addition information please let me know ......

 

[Loewe]

Thanks Slash!

Might the BC be BJ 320? It would fit with others known, and so far no RJ maker is known. Also, does it have three Crown/O like acceptance stamps next to it?

Sounds like an interesting rifle, and it is easy to develop a liking to Amberg's, they have a lot to recommend collecting them... the quality maintained throughout the war rivaled the commercial makers and were apparently very consistent in acceptance patterns (few inspectors) and how the rifles were made. Once a feature was adopted, it remained, for the most part. The examination of stock features during 1916-1918 was quite interesting, two-piece stocks were used quite a bit, which was a surprise, but especially in 1918.

 

[Slash]

Thanks Slash!

Might the BC be BJ 320? It would fit with others known, and so far no RJ maker is known. Also, does it have three Crown/O like acceptance stamps next to it?

My pleasure. Yes, it most certainly could be and probably is BJ. The rifle has some condition issues from the previous owner's basement and some of the details are hard to make out. I almost wrote that it was either RJ or BJ but went with the wrong choice its seems. So BJ 320 it is. And yes, next to BC down the bottom/center of the barrel are three Crown > Alpha characters with the Bavarian lion at the top.

 

[Loewe]

Crown over "A" characters? Just confirming as C/A does show up earlier and later, that inspector becomes one of the main ones later in 1917 and 1918, does almost all the barrels later in the war, is seen on some 1916 barrels, but rarely.

It is a good report for sure, BC for Imperial rifles are difficult to find, maybe 500 or so altogether, maybe a few more, but a mere fraction of what is recorded for 98k production, which is in the thousands.

 

[Slash]

Crown over "A" characters? Just confirming as C/A does show up earlier and later, that inspector becomes one of the main ones later in 1917 and 1918, does almost all the barrels later in the war, is seen on some 1916 barrels, but rarely.

No, I would say they are Crown > O or at least they look like Os to me. These darn things can be hard to read so I just used the generic Alpha terminology without thinking that would lead one to think it was Crown > A. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Loewe]

Ok, excellent, yes German characters are difficult to read, I do not even really try to be accurate, the inspectors name is unimportant, rather the changes are what i trend. Starting in 1916 many of the firms do go to Latin or Roman characters, the C/A is easy to identify, but Amberg used several variations of "O", I am not sure if different inspectors or different stamps are the reason. Stamps ("O") on the stocks differ from those on the metal, it is most noticeable, but the important thing, as I see it, is the changes and the accuracy of the characters are less important than the fact they change.

C/A is recorded (barrels) in early 1916, but very rarely, by 1917 they do all the barrels pretty much, and have an important place on the RR, but slight changes are common throughout 1916-1918, usually between half a dozen letters, - just a guess, but it seems several "progress" in the parts or process they inspected, i assume they were training and worked their way through less important inspection (parts) to more involved, or took the place of other inspectors who moved to other facilities.

 

[Loewe]

New discovery!

BobT is a collector that frequently lurks on the forum, keeping us honest, much like Jon Speed, he emailed me an hour ago when he noticed similar batch codes on the bolts... I had overlooked this until he brought it to my attention, but going through my database, guided by the trend sheets that referred to matching bolts, I came across a solid match (8D7) to link these batch codes on the receivers to the bolts. Here is a Amberg/17, I think it might be Wolfgang's, but not sure.

 

[BATANGUENO]

My Amberg is from 1917 but is transformed to an 98b rifle for the wehrmacht....
The receiver still bears the Bavarian lion and is numbered 4267 h the other site has still the imperial stamps...
below is the receiver stamped with 2d7 O..... not very readable...
Not really importing and beside this discussion here ; the new sight got the stamp of S /42 WaA63 (Mauser)
The barrel is demilitarised but got the WaA stamp with the serial number (new barrel?)
greetings Bat.
.

 

[Loewe]

Did you take a photo of the right receiver?