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Ziess Zielvier 4x Scope Elevation adjustment

T

twilloug

Member
I purchased a couple of rifles and scope. The scope is a Zeiss Zielvier 4X. The serial number is 41478. The dial on the top is numbered 0-59, equally spaced. All the information i have seen says the scopes ranged from 100-800 or 100-1000 yds. So any help on what this dial increment are? How do I know if it is working properly? Anything special about sighting this one in?

Thanks will try to post pics of it.
 
Hello,

I would like to see pics of course but sounds like a 7.62x54r type meter dial. most 1-8 dials are for 8mm 198gr, most 100-1000 are for Argentine there are exceptions, Czech 100-1000 is 8mm. please post pics!!

later
vaughn
 
photos of my scope.

Here are a couple photos of my scope. Any info on what the dial measurements show me.

Thanks.
 

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I am not sure they make much sense. distance between the marking should grow with the distance of the target. Is my guess correct that this is a postwar commercial mount?
 
A similar elevation dial was developed by A. Preuß (chief of the Sauer & Sohn testing center in Neudamm) in the early days of the 20th century.
On early scopes the dial was made from one piece. After repair of the scope .... you had to grind off the old markings and apply new range markings on the dial. Same thing if you bought a new rifle, but wanted to keep your scope. Or used the same scope on different rifles.
With such a dial you only had to remember what marking is for a certain distance. e.g. 15 = 100m, 21 = 200m, 37 = 300m
 
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Scope

thanks for all the replies. the mount is a Griffin and Howe side mount (1931 stamped date). Not sure what date the scope is....pre war, post war. pretty sure it is commercial. It was setup to be used on 4 different rifles. I bought two of the rifles (30-06 and 257).

So is it more of a trial and error to site this scope in. when you turn the dial, there does not appear to be a stop on it. It will keep turning. is this right?
 
The Dial reminds me of the Windage Dial found on the Zeiss G.Z.4X Scope .
Looked for a photo that showed the Windage Dial of a Zeiss G.Z.4X but was not able to find one .

If some has a Pic maybe they can post it . Would be interesting to compare the 2 dials . Best Regards.
 
I was also hoping someone could explain the workings on the top of the scope. Obviously the dial is adjusted and then locked in place with the set screw for the distance. Any significance to the red dot on top where I assume the focus adjustment is?
 
Dave Roberts said:
The Dial reminds me of the Windage Dial found on the Zeiss G.Z.4X Scope .
Looked for a photo that showed the Windage Dial of a Zeiss G.Z.4X but was not able to find one .

If some has a Pic maybe they can post it . Would be interesting to compare the 2 dials . Best Regards.
Click to expand...

GZ4 has a Zero in the middle, and counts in steps of 10 up to 50 on each side.
 
twilloug said:
thanks for all the replies. the mount is a Griffin and Howe side mount (1931 stamped date). Not sure what date the scope is....pre war, post war. pretty sure it is commercial. It was setup to be used on 4 different rifles. I bought two of the rifles (30-06 and 257).

So is it more of a trial and error to site this scope in. when you turn the dial, there does not appear to be a stop on it. It will keep turning. is this right?
Click to expand...

scope is pre-war. My guess it that it was a pre war export scope to the US, bought by a hunter, who had this sort of dial put on.
 
Hello,

unless brought back by a vet all pre-war zeiss would have the GERMANY marking either under the elevation drum on the left hand side OR on top of the zeiss logo for very early ones. the red dot on top of the elevation drum is for dissassembly purposes on proper alignment if set properly. even though there is no stop pin there is only a min and max it can turn as there is a snail shell type movement and there are stops with in that track to stop the track from disengageing from the reticule frame and lossing the spring tension they work under. the top dial is your focus adjustment. this dial is as absolute mentions used for multiple rifles with different caliburs. many would have like this griffen and howel bases mounted on severl rifles and move the scope with upper half mount from rifle to rifle. scope dates about 1933/34

later
vaughn
 
Dial adjustment

0-59 indicates a minute of angle increment. Basically each angle is divided into 60 minutes hence the name minute of angle. Look up moa online. The only thing I can think of is your dial adjusts minutes at a specific distance.
 
Ziess Zielvier 4X

So I know my thread is a little old but I pulled the scope back out to examine to see if I could get the elevation to adjust. So I have a couple more questions that I am hoping you can help me with.
1. Without any stops on the elevation adjustment wheel, Is zero always zero or would it depend on how many times the dial has been turned?

2. The focus still works and has a stops in place as it can only turn so far. When I adjust the elevation dial, would the scope cross hairs move up/down when looking through the scope in relation to the target?

3. Is this something I can take a part and look for something that might be missing? elevation wheel stops? adjustment?

Thanks.
 
Update: so after researching the parts and operation of the scope, I found that the 3 screws on the elevation dial were not tight. This allowed the outer ring of the dial to rotate without actually turning the adjuster. I tightened the screws and what do you know it works. It is kind of difficult to turn, however I am assuming it hasn't been turned in awhile. How easy should the dial turn? Do you lubricate this piece somehow?

Thanks
 
As mentioned above a dial of this type was the best option when the calibre and trajectory of the cartridge to be used was unknown to the factory and might vary widely. Zeiss needed to put something on there, or else the user would just have to find the appropriate point for each range by trial and error and then scratch a line as in earlier times. With a MOA scale the user could often look up the trajectory for a given range or start with settings used on an iron sight and fine adjust the scope on the range until they found the exact setting for whatever distances they wished. The settings could then be recorded and either remembered or kept on an aide memoire for reference. As mentioned, this also allowed the scope to used on different rifles with the process being repeated for each one if desired. Griffin & Howe sold several Zeiss models in the 1920s and 30s. From what we see on classic American rifles of the period, most buyers seem to have chosen the Zielklein since it was smaller, lighter, cheaper, arguably stronger and most of the shooting authors recommended the lower 2.5x power. The Zielklein was also better suited to the rigidity and strength of the Griffin & Howe mounting.

Later comment: this dial was probably made up or at least marked in the USA; on closer inspection I do not believe it was made by Zeiss.
 
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Ziess Zielvier 4X

Thanks Old Glass. Hey guys any idea how to make this a little easier to turn the dial to adjust. As I mentioned, I tightened the 3 small screws on the dial and it now adjusts the scope, however it seems like it should be easier to turn. Is there something that needs to be lubed or do I have the screws too tight or something. Thanks again for your help.
 
I also have a ziess that is very difficult to adjust...for what it is worth..you should zero @ 100 or 200..or what ever you normally shoot at...then compensate for lesser or greater yardages with hold over/under. German instructors were adamant about not making changes to the settings.....(or so I have read).
 
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