ZF41 Study

[kentomon]

Here's a nice reference picture from the german Bundesarchive.

Nice picture! I have seen it before. The scope seems to be made by ddv.

 

[oldwing]

Appears to be the special short eye relief model

 

[kentomon]

Appears to be the special short eye relief model

A great find!!
...
...

... It is a normal Type1 scope.
Another picture of the same soldier from the Bundesarchiv.

 

[kentomon]

This time, I have made a video explaining my ZF41 database. Perhaps it would also be a guide for the major markings found on the mount.

 

[val99]

Here's a new one early, flat roller bmj k.f. for your database...

 

[kentomon]

Thank you val!
Beautiful bmj!

 

[Stephan98k]

Hi
Have you ever seen an ar K98 ZF41 with flat rail in the L block of 1942 ? If not , how do you explain cxn first type ZF41 with blue circle on original L block mount with flat rollers ? just a thought.
best regards

Xavier,
Thank you very much for your comment. Really beautiful rifle and scope. I have little information on the rifles. So the 42 rifles with flat rails are not seen. It is easy to say perhaps the blue circle is already from 1941 since no confirming document is found yet. But I have thought the circle was one result of winter war in 1941, so I would think the other way. I guess they produced only flat railed K98k-Zf41, no normal railed one made together in the same line in 1941. If the scope was mated at the same time, they should all have flat rollers. Now digging up my data for flat rollers, I see very early ZF41 with K.F. and also several blue circles. I know my data is not enough, but what I see is the lowest serial# for flat roller circle is 71k and highest 88k, which means at least 17k scopes were produced. And they are not only flat rollers but also normal rollers mixed together. This means at that time, both flat and normal railed K98k-Zf41 existed, which means it might be a bit late from 1941. Remember, they had to prepare for the next winter, it is possible to think they have tried to switch the scope if the new scope is available.

Hi Ken
the L block from Borsigwalde (AR) is a late block of 1941, I agree. K98 DUV of 1941 with flat rail do exist as well.
I have never seen a K98 ZF41 of 1942 with flat rail but that does not mean they do not exist in the beginning of 1942.
best regards
Xavier

Kentomon, your research is great and so is your work with the lubricant markings for dating the scopes. I agree with you, the blue circle was a result of the experiences during Winter 1941/1942.


Xavier, your "ax/ar41" Sn. 8246l is in fact 1942 production.
This K98k belongs to the "l" block production from 1941, but this rifle was not assembled until mid-1942. There was a production stop at Mauser in Berlin in 1941 and that is why the later assembled Zf.41 flat rollers can be found in 1942.

If you remove the buttplate you may find a stock completion date code from 1941 like "Br 3. 22. 1941" which means May 28, 1941, but a code from 1942 like "Br 3. 4. 1942" which means April 3, 1942 is also possible.

Regards,
Stephan

 

[Stephan98k]

At last, I have managed to make another one.
100,000 ZF41 with 3,000 ZF40 are obviously too small.

"Nevertheless I would like to ask you a question. Do you believe this Wikipedia or believe the result of my research?"

Now it's December 2023 and the Wikipedia entry is still online. Like I said in my last comment, your research is great and your conclusions are logical, you are right with your assumptions.

As I have shown in my video, I have estimated the production number of ZF41s from the serial# of my database.
Total number
View attachment 332968
ZF40* and ZF40
View attachment 332969
I believe the actual production number of ZF41 would never be under 200k and the ZF40s be around 30k.

Production of the Zf.40 scopes started on August 15, 1942 and every month from September 1942 1,000 scopes were diverted from the Luftwaffe Karabiner 98k-Zf.41 production.
Around June 1943 there should be 8,300 and 29,900 pieces, for a total of 38,200 of these scopes. The older type are marked with * after the designation.

Your estimated production number is 264,500 and if the numbers in the documents are correct, there should be a total of 271,796 scopes.

Regards,
Stephan

 

[kentomon]

Production of the Zf.40 scopes started on August 15, 1942 and every month from September 1942 1,000 scopes were diverted from the Luftwaffe Karabiner 98k-Zf.41 production.
Around June 1943 there should be 8,300 and 29,900 pieces, for a total of 38,200 of these scopes. The older type are marked with * after the designation.

Thank you for the information.
I presume the early ZF40 scopes produced from 15.08.1942 were ZF40*s marked with "O". That is shown in my database.

 

[Hambone]

Excellent work Kentomon. Thanks for sharing the information. Happy New Year to you and yours.

 

[620ie]

I found this
Best regards and happy new year

 

[kentomon]

I found this
Best regards and happy new year

Beautiful bmj! Thanks for sharing and happy new year to you!

 

[kentomon]

Excellent work Kentomon. Thanks for sharing the information. Happy New Year to you and yours.

Thank you for your kind words.
My wish is to find out the fact and share it with the others. I have no intention of spreading “my own theory”. I am always ready to change my opinion when facing a new information, but I cannot stand an information from an unreliable source.
When I have started studying on ZF41s, everyone was thinking that the early ones were made as “ZF40” and then modified later as “41 or 41/1”. It is written as such in some books. I have been explaining that this is not correct for more than a decade, but still there is a deep faith among some people. They have taken a photo or a figure from my website and used them in their own website or writings, yet they ignore my study and stick to their old faith as a “fact” without any doubt. If I am wrong, I would really like to know what my mistake is. And I really would like to know where the “3000 ZF40s” came from.

 

[Mauser4me]

As I have shown in my video, I have estimated the production number of ZF41s from the serial# of my database.
Total number
View attachment 332968
ZF40* and ZF40
View attachment 332969
I believe the actual production number of ZF41 would never be under 200k and the ZF40s be around 30k.

I have ZF41/1 CXN scope # 153670 - a new highest number?

Also wondering if anyone could point me in the direction of a scope adjusting tool - know there are reproductions out there but can't tell which is correct for a 41/1 as opposed to type 1 or type 2

 

[kentomon]

I have ZF41/1 CXN scope # 153670 - a new highest number?

Also wondering if anyone could point me in the direction of a scope adjusting tool - know there are reproductions out there but can't tell which is correct for a 41/1 as opposed to type 1 or type 2

So your scope is a ZF40-41/1? Would you show me the photos of the markings?
And as for the tool, I guess the ones for type2 and type3 (ZF41/1) are in same size, and they are larger than the ones for type1.

 

[Mauser4me]

So your scope is a ZF40-41/1? Would you show me the photos of the markings?
And as for the tool, I guess the ones for type2 and type3 (ZF41/1) are in same size, and they are larger than the ones for type1.

Photos of my ZF-41. Rifle is all matching and scopes seems to me, to be original to the rifle. - I do have the rain/shade shields, just took them off for the photos.

 

[kentomon]

Photos of my ZF-41. Rifle is all matching and scopes seems to me, to be original to the rifle. - I do have the rain/shade shields, just took them off for the photos.

Thanks for the photos! Just brilliant set!!
Please let me add the data to my database.
Is your rifle byf44? I see no rifle# on the mount.

 

[Mauser4me]

Correct. Byf 44 s/n 33358k per the photos. Are you able to verify that the scope is original to the rifle? Not sure if you are able to somewhat correlate/match scope #s to rifle #s

 

[kentomon]

Correct. Byf 44 s/n 33358k per the photos. Are you able to verify that the scope is original to the rifle? Not sure if you are able to somewhat correlate/match scope #s to rifle #s

The only way to verify the combination of the scope and the rifle is the rifle# marked on the side of the rear mount arm. And since it is said they have stopped numbering the mount from the late byf44s, I guess there is no way to tell if the scope is original to the late byf44 rifle or not. And to say further, since the production of the ZF41s has been already ceased in the late 1944, the scope was chosen from the left stock, not from the manufacturing line. That means any combination could be possible, according to the left stock. I can see several Type1 scopes with the byf43 or 44 rifle# in my database.

 

[jithaca]

Great find and thank you for sharing!

In the old book "The German Sniper 1914-1945" by Peter R. Seich on the page214, there is a picture of ZF41 with a lower serial number of KKW on the mount.
The caption says: A "ddv" code ZF41 sight originally paired with a Gustloff KKW rifle (143635).

Perhaps it is reasonable to think the earlier serial range (143k-) used ddv (or other Type1) ZF41, and the later serial range (270k-) used jve ZF41/1 (Type3).
I wish to know their scope serial numbers.

My copy of The German Sniper is currently in storage, do you know who is credited with the photograph