ZF41 Study
- Thread starter kentomon
- Start date
Thank you! My grandpa bought it in the 60's for next to nothing and gave it to me when I got my rifle. It's in remarkably good shape
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk
This one came on a rifle that we are trying to authenticate in the Rifles sub-forum. Seems to be very similar to another ddv ZF41 posted in this thread on page 10. Thoughts? If she looks good feel free to add it to the database.
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kentomon
Senior Member
Very nice early ddv!
If the mount is original to the scope, it should have rifle serial number near the duv on the rear arm.
If there is no number, the mount was not used with the scope during the war.
This does not mean the mount is repro or not good, means the mount is original but not to the scope.
kentomon
Senior Member
ZF41 database
Hello,
I have decided to add rifle Serial# on the mount in the list of my database.
Please understand this is only for study and not for finding a scope to make a matching set.
I can not help anyone on that.
http://zielfernrohr.b.la9.jp/ZF41database190105.pdf
Hello,
I have decided to add rifle Serial# on the mount in the list of my database.
Please understand this is only for study and not for finding a scope to make a matching set.
I can not help anyone on that.
http://zielfernrohr.b.la9.jp/ZF41database190105.pdf
Last edited:
43 on 42 base
having served ,its prob a field repair.bud broke itand had itreplaced with spare.also hav a z41 type 2 that dabrought back with can.lol,although he was always pissed off he cut the strap off when all he had to do was unhook it.but he daid he was in a hurry.no doubt
having served ,its prob a field repair.bud broke itand had itreplaced with spare.also hav a z41 type 2 that dabrought back with can.lol,although he was always pissed off he cut the strap off when all he had to do was unhook it.but he daid he was in a hurry.no doubt
kentomon
Senior Member
The origin of ZF41
Here is my latest acquisition. It is the earliest example of ZF41 Type1. In fact, it is not ZF41, being made much earlier than its official introduction (14.7.1941). Of course, it is not marked “ZF40” neither, and is only marked “Z.F.”.
This is the only type marked with marker name “Busch” (Emil Busch, later coded cxn) and the marker location “Rathenow”. All other makers use codes without exception.
From this one can assume the scope was made pre-1940 and the development of ZF41 was done by Emil Busch.
The development of ZF41 began before the war. General Leeb, the last chief of Heereswaffenamt, wrote a book “Aus der Rüstung des Dritten Reiches” on Heereswaffenamt after the war in 1958.
On page35, he wrote the order for a rifle scope was made around 1938. While the HWaA suggested one with 4 power, the higher authority demanded one with 1.5 power and that was introduced. I guess the Emil Busch company had a strong connection with the Party. Even so, I am thinking that was not the only reason.
Here is my latest acquisition. It is the earliest example of ZF41 Type1. In fact, it is not ZF41, being made much earlier than its official introduction (14.7.1941). Of course, it is not marked “ZF40” neither, and is only marked “Z.F.”.
This is the only type marked with marker name “Busch” (Emil Busch, later coded cxn) and the marker location “Rathenow”. All other makers use codes without exception.
From this one can assume the scope was made pre-1940 and the development of ZF41 was done by Emil Busch.
The development of ZF41 began before the war. General Leeb, the last chief of Heereswaffenamt, wrote a book “Aus der Rüstung des Dritten Reiches” on Heereswaffenamt after the war in 1958.
On page35, he wrote the order for a rifle scope was made around 1938. While the HWaA suggested one with 4 power, the higher authority demanded one with 1.5 power and that was introduced. I guess the Emil Busch company had a strong connection with the Party. Even so, I am thinking that was not the only reason.
Great information Ken. Love learn new information about the ZF41. Thank you for sharing. And great scope!
kentomon
Senior Member
https://www.rjmilitaria.com/zf41/
This site uses pictures from my website without my permission. But I really don’t care about that. The site is informative and very well made. What I care is that they still blindly accept the old faith “early scopes were made as ZF40 and then came ZF41”. They say “the scope was developed in 1940 as the ZF40. When widespread production started in 1941, it was re-designated the ZF 41”. All facts show these are WRONG. No Type1 is marked “ZF40”. ZF40* (Type2) and ZF40 (Type3) were made when widespread production started around 1942 to 1943. You can read these from my database.
http://zielfernrohr.b.la9.jp/ZF41database190105.pdf
I guess they can also learn something from it, but they have ignored my email.
This site uses pictures from my website without my permission. But I really don’t care about that. The site is informative and very well made. What I care is that they still blindly accept the old faith “early scopes were made as ZF40 and then came ZF41”. They say “the scope was developed in 1940 as the ZF40. When widespread production started in 1941, it was re-designated the ZF 41”. All facts show these are WRONG. No Type1 is marked “ZF40”. ZF40* (Type2) and ZF40 (Type3) were made when widespread production started around 1942 to 1943. You can read these from my database.
http://zielfernrohr.b.la9.jp/ZF41database190105.pdf
I guess they can also learn something from it, but they have ignored my email.
kentomon
Senior Member
ZF41 Types
Some pictures from my website for review.
The difference between ZF41 Type1, Type2 and Type3
The development of the ZF41 series made by cxn (Emil Busch)
Comparison of ZF41 scope Body
For more Information see this page.
http://zielfernrohr.b.la9.jp/zielfernrohr_013.htm
Some pictures from my website for review.
The difference between ZF41 Type1, Type2 and Type3
The development of the ZF41 series made by cxn (Emil Busch)
Comparison of ZF41 scope Body
For more Information see this page.
http://zielfernrohr.b.la9.jp/zielfernrohr_013.htm
Ken, it can be frustrating when people use your info in the incorrect manner. I know it happens to Bruce and Mike all the time. Keep up the good work. It's largely because of your great website that I like the Zf41 so much.
During my research of M91/30 rifles history I had discovered some documents related to Soviet orders at German optical factories in late 1920's-early 1930's. It's not a secret that soviet PT and PE scopes are based at Busch Visar #5 scopes.
Serial Visar # 5 scopes were modified by Germans according to Sovied requirements and received windage settings, and at the base of those models were created PT and PE scopes. However, soviets set another goal to Germans, and Emil Busch factory particulary - they requested creation of long eye relief scope, that was mounted in the area of the rear sight. In their letter dated January 1930 Busch factory says that creation of such scope is possible, but they consider it as bad idea.
And 8-9 years later Busch created ZF scope. Coincidence?
"Zur Frage des erweiterten Augenabstandes von 25 cm möchten wir folge des mitteilen :
An sich ist die Durchführung eines auf 25 cm erweiterten Augenabstandes sowohl optisch als auch konstruktiv technisch erfüllbar, doch bedeutet die konstruktive Ausführung eine vollkommene Umrechnung und Umkonstruktion in optischer und technischer Beziehung. Die Zielfernrohre würden wesentlich von den sonst gebräuchlichen Typen abweichen, auch würde der obengenannte Preis durch einen erweiterten Augenabstand naturgenäss eine starke Beeinflussung erfahren, und ferner würden die Liefertermine wesentlich länger, voraussichtlich um etwa 3-4 Monate sein müssen
Allgemein möchten wir noch erwähnen, dass wir uns von einem erweiterten Augenabstand keine wesentlichen Vorteile versprechen, sondern dass lach unserer Ansicht diese Einrichtung sehr grosse Nachteile hat. Das Gesichtsfeld würde weniger als ein Drittel des Jetzigen sein, und man würde nicht die Möglichkeit haben, das Abkommen um soviel zu versteller wie es bei den aus der Schusstafel der Abnahmebedingungen hervergenenden Entfernungen notwendig ist. Ausserdem würde dem Auge durch den grossen Abstand erheblich mehr Nebenlicht zugeführt, was eine Erschwerung der Orientierung des Auges und cor Erfassung des Zieles mit sich bringen würde."
Serial Visar # 5 scopes were modified by Germans according to Sovied requirements and received windage settings, and at the base of those models were created PT and PE scopes. However, soviets set another goal to Germans, and Emil Busch factory particulary - they requested creation of long eye relief scope, that was mounted in the area of the rear sight. In their letter dated January 1930 Busch factory says that creation of such scope is possible, but they consider it as bad idea.
And 8-9 years later Busch created ZF scope. Coincidence?
"Zur Frage des erweiterten Augenabstandes von 25 cm möchten wir folge des mitteilen :
An sich ist die Durchführung eines auf 25 cm erweiterten Augenabstandes sowohl optisch als auch konstruktiv technisch erfüllbar, doch bedeutet die konstruktive Ausführung eine vollkommene Umrechnung und Umkonstruktion in optischer und technischer Beziehung. Die Zielfernrohre würden wesentlich von den sonst gebräuchlichen Typen abweichen, auch würde der obengenannte Preis durch einen erweiterten Augenabstand naturgenäss eine starke Beeinflussung erfahren, und ferner würden die Liefertermine wesentlich länger, voraussichtlich um etwa 3-4 Monate sein müssen
Allgemein möchten wir noch erwähnen, dass wir uns von einem erweiterten Augenabstand keine wesentlichen Vorteile versprechen, sondern dass lach unserer Ansicht diese Einrichtung sehr grosse Nachteile hat. Das Gesichtsfeld würde weniger als ein Drittel des Jetzigen sein, und man würde nicht die Möglichkeit haben, das Abkommen um soviel zu versteller wie es bei den aus der Schusstafel der Abnahmebedingungen hervergenenden Entfernungen notwendig ist. Ausserdem würde dem Auge durch den grossen Abstand erheblich mehr Nebenlicht zugeführt, was eine Erschwerung der Orientierung des Auges und cor Erfassung des Zieles mit sich bringen würde."
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Alex, that is great information! Thanks for sharing.
kentomon
Senior Member
I know next to nothing in regard to the ZF41 but can provide this example for your research. cag Z.F.40 converted to 41/1. Blue + lubrication marking. Original serial number on top of ocular tube ground away. 2__8 remains visible. Black paint applied to ground area and several other areas of the scope. Serial number 4565 applied to the side of the ocular tube. Lazy V stamping to inside of rear arm of the mount. All of this may be commonly encountered, just trying to provide the details.
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kentomon
Senior Member
Thank you for the data. Is the former number 5 digit from the width of 2 and 8? It seems to be longer than 4565. 4 digit is the correct range for cag scopes. I wonder what have occured. Very interesting.
Happy to help. The former number was four digits. It looks a little longer than the 4565 but in reality they are the same length. Even with a powerful loupe I can not discern the two center digits. Interesting that the initial serial was removed and then renumbered.
kentomon
Senior Member
Thank you again!
kentomon
Senior Member
As I have mentioned in the other thread, I have renewed my database list by adding data on mount markings.
http://zielfernrohr.b.la9.jp/ZF41database191117.pdf
If your scope is already on the list, please add the data of the mount to fill the blank.
And new data is always welcome. Pictures will be great.
Thank you for your contribution.
http://zielfernrohr.b.la9.jp/ZF41database191117.pdf
If your scope is already on the list, please add the data of the mount to fill the blank.
And new data is always welcome. Pictures will be great.
Thank you for your contribution.
