Third Party Press

Xmas ornaments from Hitler's tree

And this is exactly why this thread was started!
It has never really been about your Swastika Christmas ornaments hasn't it?
It was just bait for us, to see how we would respond.


I'll sum it up for you again in four sentences.
The Fp helmets in question were found in the US with severeal different veterans and have been in several different collections, but more importantly it also was discovered in relic state in France independent from eachother.
That relic helmet is material evidence that they are real.
Also they were sold for exactly the same value as without having a name and Fp in them, so there was no financial gain, the first and only thing fakers are interested in, they do it to make money.
Follow the money, their is alas nothing to follow in this case.
The FPN helmets from Ken supposedly came from 2 different vets, 2 different states, by two different collections. We know that because Ken told us. We know they came from vets but strangely we don't have any specific vet information.
Hambone's helmet likely came from a vet at one time as well, but again no specific vet information.
The French connection helmet was supposedly a ground dig I understand ?

So YOUR vet acquired information sounds rock solid. But MY vet info is just full of holes. After all, you believe me, but that's where it ends. How do we know this old guy was even a vet at all ? And where did he really get the baubles, from some postwar Eastern Bloc setup perhaps ? It's just the same old B.S. story from some old man claiming vet status, isin't it? We've heard that SO MANY times.

But the FPN vet stories really sound legit, especially with the Ken connection.
 
It is appropriate to doubt multiple helmets of the same type showing up, particularly when two show up from the same dealer who has has issues in the past and who has marked up a pair of them to $4000. However, courtesy of member LJ here, we know ONE of the helmets Ken N used to make the pair came from LJ. That's actually positive because had both helmets had no history prior to the single dealer producing both, with a substantial mark up, then that could indicate that the dealer had them created.

I have learned with ANY "vet" stories that: 1) it might not be a vet, or at least one from where they say; 2) if a vet it may be bullshit; 3) If a vet it may be a mix of truth and bullshit. I got this vet story with this rifle, and researched it and confirmed that the vet did in fact serve with the unit he said and he did bring the rifle back. However, some of his stories are him bullshitting about with the interviewer. His telling of the capture of the particular K98k and bayonet are closer to fact than bullshit because of the mundane way the rifle was captured. However, there is a good bit of bullshit in these stories. How many old guys do you know that like to bullshit? I'm becoming an old guy and I still bullshit.
 
I am a combat veteran / Over the last 50 years, I have "Brought Back" home numerous items purchased at gun shops, from fellow collectors, and at gun shows.

Therefore all my guns and militaria are genuine " VET BRING BACKS" !!!!!!!!

I even brought myself home from Viet Nam, and The 1st Gulf War, that makes me, myself, a certified "VET BRING BACK"

SEE HOW EASY THIS IS ??????
 
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So YOUR vet acquired information sounds rock solid. But MY vet info is just full of holes. After all, you believe me, but that's where it ends. How do we know this old guy was even a vet at all ? And where did he really get the baubles, from some postwar Eastern Bloc setup perhaps ? It's just the same old B.S. story from some old man claiming vet status, isin't it? We've heard that SO MANY times.

But the FPN vet stories really sound legit, especially with the Ken connection.

I offered no “vet stories” simply theories on why there would be FPN helmets here with Utah Beach / Cherbourg provenance. It’s a pretty solid theory too. It can’t be factually denied. What, like 30,000 Germans were captured in Cherbourg and Cherbourg was a main port that mail and troops and everything else went through. Seems like an excellent way for some of those 30,000 German helmets to make it home as war trophies. My “story” on buying my helmet is fact, supported by documentation. My information about the French helmet came with pics and a link. LJ confirmed where one of the Ken N lids came from, i.e., LJ. That’s first hand, not a story about someone telling a story.
 
I bought one with a swastika on it years ago at the MAC show for something like 10 bucks. I know it's in poor taste, but I hang it on the tree every year at Christmas near an ornament my father sent home from his barracks in Garmisch back in the early 50's. When friends and family notice it, they just shake their heads and smile. I figure, we hide a pickle ornament in the tree, why not hide the swastika too?
 
Reading thru all this crap made me recall, a lot of years ago, while stationed in Germany, I found a booklet, I think published by the NSDAP, and it was about a NAZI alternative Christmas that featured an old woman who lived in a cave. I think it was called Frau Hohle? I seem to remember a pic of a Christmas tree with swastika ornaments? The booklet was published in color; don’t remember what I did with it but think it long gone. Anyone else seen such a booklet?
 
I bought one with a swastika on it years ago at the MAC show for something like 10 bucks. I know it's in poor taste, but I hang it on the tree every year at Christmas near an ornament my father sent home from his barracks in Garmisch back in the early 50's. When friends and family notice it, they just shake their heads and smile. I figure, we hide a pickle ornament in the tree, why not hide the swastika too?
If you don’t fear poor taste, you have to find those with AH’s head, you can’t beat them.
I would really like to know where the museum found them…
 
As WWII was ending and after for some time, the entire country of Germany was basically looted by allied troops hunting for souvenirs (such as in attics of damaged houses). These souvenirs today run the gambit of very common to very rare. Most collectors today, even those who have been at it for a number of decades, have never come across most of these very rare items (yet they exist nonetheless).
Most collectors, understandably, prefer the very commonly acquired items - uniforms, medals, helmets, weapons, other field equipment, etc... There is networking with other collectors, collector guides, and a large selection to choose from. Comfort in numbers.

But to demand this irrefutable proof from those who collect the extremely rare before the items will be accepted (or claim they never existed) seems a bit childish. If you are not comfortable in such a realm, do not collect there.

“Germany was chaotic, therefore anything could exist. Demanding proof that something actually did exist is childish.”

This is the funniest comment I’ve read in ages. Did you type this ironically, or did you actually mean it? Surely you don’t actually believe this.
 
Xmas in August ! (sounds oddly familiar, like xmas in July).

Fascinating topic, how the Nazis celebrated Xmas. Is that an NSDAP style tree topper ?
 

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If you don’t fear poor taste, you have to find those with AH’s head, you can’t beat them.
I would really like to know where the museum found them…
:mad:

Where collectors buy their fake militaria.
They are customers of Hermann Historica Auctionhouse for example.

The WW2 collection has several fakes on display.
The biggest scandal is the uniform jacket of Hiltlers brother in law, Fegelein, they bought it from HH auctions and it is absolutely fake.
This scandal was in local press, I kept the newspaper clippings.
Another expensive fake bought by the museum from HH auctions is that snow camo SS helmet.
The Zyklon B canisters are also museum copies and I have more examples.
The persons responsible for the WW2 collection are buying things they don't know, they have blind faith in certain auctionhouses.
The problem is that they put outright fakes and museum copies on display in the WW2 exhibition and the public thinks they are real and thus gives power of evidence to fake objects.

The 3R related things in the collection need to be approached with utter most care.
The display style of the WW2 section is also completely different then the rest of the museum.
I tend to stay away from it, the Belgian May 1940 pieces are absolutely original and worth a watching though.
 
:mad:

Where collectors buy their fake militaria.
They are customers of Hermann Historica Auctionhouse for example.

The WW2 collection has several fakes on display.
The biggest scandal is the uniform jacket of Hiltlers brother in law, Fegelein, they bought it from HH auctions and it is absolutely fake.
This scandal was in local press, I kept the newspaper clippings.
Another expensive fake bought by the museum from HH auctions is that snow camo SS helmet.
The Zyklon B canisters are also museum copies and I have more examples.
The persons responsible for the WW2 collection are buying things they don't know, they have blind faith in certain auctionhouses.
The problem is that they put outright fakes and museum copies on display in the WW2 exhibition and the public thinks they are real and thus gives power of evidence to fake objects.

The 3R related things in the collection need to be approached with utter most care.
The display style of the WW2 section is also completely different then the rest of the museum.
I tend to stay away from it, the Belgian May 1940 pieces are absolutely original and worth a watching though.
Wow ! That of Fegelein is still on display. They also had a uniform jacket of von Kluge. Real or fake ?
 
Wow ! That of Fegelein is still on display. They also had a uniform jacket of von Kluge. Real or fake ?
I haven't seen the von Kluge I think or know of its back story.
When I go I seldomly spend time in the WW2 exhibition.
But I don't have good vibes.
In the past, when the WW2 section was being constructed, it took decades to do it, the new acquistions were displayed near the entrance and they had card on it with the orgin, many of it came from Hermann Historica Auctionhouses and most of it was very dubious.
A good example is also the Herman Göring cap they have on display, if it doesn't come with solid provenance, it is just one of the many fakes that have been dumped on the market, usually through auction houses like HH.

That doesn't mean everything is fake.
The torture chest indeed is the one used by the Sipo/SD in Antwerp, that club with barbed wire around was indeed dredged out of the moat of fort Breendonk (Sipo/SD prison).
The weapons are good, they all came from the old exhibition, just as the Belgian Army equipment; everything which was in the museums collection prior to the closing of the old exhibition can usually be trusted, all the new additions is something completely different.
The T13 light tank destroyer is original, it was pressed in to German service, then captured by the Soviets, who returned it to Belgium, together with the captured archives in the early '90's.
Like I said, take all the "cool" 3R displays with a serious grain of salt, they are of the same quality as in all other museums: loaded with fakes just to entertain the tourist and mainly their childern that visit the museum while on a daytrip to Brussels.
 
Some more bulbs from the Waldmann set. Notice no Christian symbolism here.
 

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Sending out the Holiday cards early this year.
 

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More. Would the 5th card down be by Max Spielmann ?

Max Spielmann 1906 - 1984​

 

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Last year I contacted one of the old established ornament makers in Germany to see if they had any information about such items. They knew nothing. I'm sure there was a major house-cleaning after the war.

I believe the old school way of making glass blown ornaments was to produce two halves of a wooden mold. These were hand carved and in this case highly detailed. The molds were then coated with graphite to protect against the molten glass.

Another bulb of the era showing similar scalloping detail.
 

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