What would the value be of a numbers "matching" sporter?

[bulletking71]

There's a sporter for sale next to me for $450 it's been thrown and "professionally" bedded into a winchester 70 stock. I have a spare russian capture stock to throw it into but I feel like $450 is high, but it doesn't appear to be hacked down to were it can't be remiliterized. I grabbed the pics that were available I wanted to make sure what is a good ball park price I would be looking at if it really is numbers matching. Although the bolt does appear to be in the white and not blued

 

[bda]

I'll bet that the lip for the handguard was removed from the rear sight base. A common thing on the sporters.

 

[bulletking71]

It doesn't appear to have the lip ground off but assuming it is there what would you pay?

 

[Zeppelin5000]

It's not numbers matching.... It's missing serialized parts.

 

[bulletking71]

Would it not be just a batching barreled action and bolt?

 

[Zeppelin5000]

Would it not be just a batching barreled action and bolt?

That's not considered "matching". In terms of K98's, the word matching means everything matches. The stock, front band, rear band, handguard, etc, all of which are either gone or swapped on this rifle.

 

[bulletking71]

That's not considered "matching". In terms of K98's, the word matching means everything matches. The stock, front band, rear band, handguard, etc, all of which are either gone or swapped on this rifle.

I mean, I guess I should have known that but I always expected sporters to be needing a new stock either way. I would have figured if the bolt matches then it would have been easier to put it into another stock and call it a day. A sporter rescue still holds more value than say a r/c right?

 

[Zeppelin5000]

I mean, I guess I should have known that but I always expected sporters to be needing a new stock either way. I would have figured if the bolt matches then it would have been easier to put it into another stock and call it a day. A sporter rescue still holds more value than say a r/c right?

Sure, you can put it in another stock, add bands, etc, but it'll still be mismatched.

Sporters are worth the least, way less than Russian captures. Sporters are usually worth somewhere in the $300-$400 range. Many collectors wouldn't even bother with them. Russian captures are worth $600-$800. A sporter though can have its value increased if it was properly restored. Still though, it wouldn't be matching and wouldn't be worth far past RC values.

 

[72usmc]

Was that rifle buffed and reblued? Was the barrel cut, measure it? I would say no. I'd rather have a $700 RC intact. The last sporter I found with a matching bolt was $150 about 3 years ago. Rear sight gone, but it dropped into a $30 VZ 24 stock because it was re stocked for a short guy. The intact bolt -all matching to itself is what I wanted. You will end up at a loss to restore that dog, and it will be a cash pit that will be worth $400 maybe if you find a reenactor to buy it. Buy an RC. Pay $200 for a farm truck or barn gun. I assume its still chambered as 8mm?

 

[waw44]

If the remaining metal is not messed with, $450 is not that bad, but it really depends on what you want with it. It won't be cheap to restore it right, with a right stock and unnumbered bands. As others said, it will always be a mismatched gun. if you restore it with a crappy RC stock and whatever parts you have floating around, it will be a cheaply restored mismatched gun.

 

[Jakeman664]

Matching unmessed with actions are 800-1200 depending on maker you are all way out of date on prices. This one looks like it's been reblued but hard to tell with the lighting. If it has been reblued 450 is probably in line.

 

[Mauserguy85]

Sure, you can put it in another stock, add bands, etc, but it'll still be mismatched.

Sporters are worth the least, way less than Russian captures. Sporters are usually worth somewhere in the $300-$400 range. Many collectors wouldn't even bother with them. Russian captures are worth $600-$800. A sporter though can have its value increased if it was properly restored. Still though, it wouldn't be matching and wouldn't be worth far past RC values.

I would have to disagree with your statement to an extent. While it’s true that some sporters are too far gone, and the best hopes of “restoring them” end up with a partly matching k98k in military configuration….

The same does not apply to Late war sporters. For example, I have quite a few KM’s BNZ and Mauser Oberndorfs that are “restored” in original replacement stocks. The scrub walnut BNZ was a nightmare to find and took years but patience payed off. Bands are unnumbered as they should be on my examples and if I were to choose to not tell anyone, they would have a resale value just as other late KM examples which are supposed bringbacks without paperwork.

I also have a ce42 “sporter” that was sitting in a aftermarket stock but its owner had its original stock, bands and band spring. The only detraction to the package that its original handguard was lost so it has an armorer’s replacement now.

In my opinion, I would take a properly “restored sporter” over a RC any day of the week. At least a sporter in general retains way more of its original parts. Now of course if the barreled action is buffed and reblued, parts grinded down, etc… then it’s just a mil surplus hunting/shooting rifle.

 

[Zeppelin5000]

I would have to disagree with your statement to an extent. While it’s true that some sporters are too far gone, and the best hopes of “restoring them” end up with a partly matching k98k in military configuration….

The same does not apply to Late war sporters. For example, I have quite a few KM’s BNZ and Mauser Oberndorfs that are “restored” in original replacement stocks. The scrub walnut BNZ was a nightmare to find and took years but patience payed off. Bands are unnumbered as they should be on my examples and if I were to choose to not tell anyone, they would have a resale value just as other late KM examples which are supposed bringbacks without paperwork.

I also have a ce42 “sporter” that was sitting in a aftermarket stock but its owner had its original stock, bands and band spring. The only detraction to the package that its original handguard was lost so it has an armorer’s replacement now.

In my opinion, I would take a properly “restored sporter” over a RC any day of the week. At least a sporter in general retains way more of its original parts. Now of course if the barreled action is buffed and reblued, parts grinded down, etc… then it’s just a mil surplus hunting/shooting rifle.

Very good points. There are exceptions of course! What I'm really talking about though is the basic sporter restoration by the average Joe-Shmo lol.

 

[Cyrano4747]

Matching unmessed with actions are 800-1200 depending on maker you are all way out of date on prices. This one looks like it's been reblued but hard to tell with the lighting. If it has been reblued 450 is probably in line.

The people saying that matching bolt/bbl/bottom metal assemblies are only worth $150 are absolutely thinking about 2002 prices, but they're also not $1200 guns unless there is something very specific going on to jack the price up (rare code etc).

IMO if it's un-messed with other than losing the stock and bands ~$450-600 is probably about right. A proper restoration (correct stock, correct bands etc) would cost a fair bit, but a good enough restoration (RC stock, whatever band you have in a drawer) could be cheap and obtainable, especially for a shooter.

That said, the metal looks reblued from where I'm sitting. If I'm right I wouldn't pay $450 for it. In fact I wouldn't pay anything for it - not worth dealing with.

 

[Zeppelin5000]

My sporter valuation of $300-$400 is basically for the barreled action alone. I'm not including stock since they're typically cut or not even a 98k stock in the first place. I'd say that can be increased to what Cyrano said if the bottom metal and bolt match. $150 is definitely too low for anything, but I feel $800-$1200 is way high for literally just a barreled action, even with matching bolt/bottom metal. Throw an uncut nice 98k stock on it (making it a stock mismatch) and sure, $800-$1200 all day.

 

[bigwagon]

I recently purchased a mint condition DOT 44 action that had the original stock brutally butchered. Not a super rare rifle on its own and made worse by the sporterizing, but the condition and matching bolt and other parts made it an enticing buy at $450. I was able to find a decent but not correct stock and bands for cheap money that turned it into a good looking rifle in original configuration. I sold it a couple weeks ago at a local show for $950, fully disclosed as a sporter rescue.

 

[Mauserguy85]

Again, sometimes it’s really worth it to do a “restoration”. These are old pics but it’s my byf45 that I purchased as a matching barreled action. Got a really good deal on an unnumbered late Mauser Oberndorf KM walnut stock from a fellow member on gunboards over 12 years ago. If I recall, the matching action was in the $350 dollar range and the stock and bands ran me around $300. This was circa 2012. It wasn’t cheap to put together in those days but on this example…. Can you beat it?

In the case of the OP’s byf43… I think the price is alright to make a representative shooter. The pics are not great, but it looks like it’s been polished and perhaps reblued to me. That kills the collector value, but if the bore is excellent or like new and you have the stock and components…. It might be a decent buy. The rear sight base lip is important. I can’t tell from the pics if it’s been ground down, but at that point if it is… then it becomes more difficult and costly (not impossible) to make it right.

 

[heavy_mech]

The pics are not great, but it looks like it’s been polished and perhaps reblued to me. That kills the collector value, but if the bore is excellent or like new and you have the stock and components…. It might be a decent buy. The rear sight base lip is important. I can’t tell from the pics if it’s been ground down, but at that point if it is… the it becomes more difficult and costly (not impossible) to make it right.

On the first point I also thought it might be. It's not heavily polished as many are so it makes it harder to tell in the pics, but that would be a breaker for me.

To the 2nd point, on a rare year/code it makes this less of a deal breaker IMHO. Also if you already have the parts, or have a line to acquire them cheaply, that also changes the metrics. For a common code in meh condition where you'd have to farm that work out, it quickly becomes a non-starter.

 

[Cyrano4747]

On the first point I also thought it might be. It's not heavily polished as many are so it makes it harder to tell in the pics, but that would be a breaker for me.

To the 2nd point, on a rare year/code it makes this less of a deal breaker IMHO. Also if you already have the parts, or have a line to acquire them cheaply, that also changes the metrics. For a common code in meh condition where you'd have to farm that work out, it quickly becomes a non-starter.

You're right, but generally it has to be a hell of a rare code to be worth it. I remember seeing pics years ago (maybe here I think?) of a swjXE that had been a fully sporterized gun - drilled and tapped, refinished, the works. For that gun it was worthwhile to fill the screw holes, gently strip off the gloss blue, and re-do a somewhat appropriate phosphate finish.

But for your typical BYF43? Meh, anything that touches the metal at all take it firmly into not being worth the effort.

 

[waw44]

I would buy that at $450, and build a SSR clone. So, OP, if you pass, let me know where it is. I have the stock and a scope already.