What about this frog?

[Muttley]

Hi all. I would like an opinion from the experts about this frog. There is a mark on the back, but I can't interpret it.
Thanks.

 

[pwcosol]

Likely a mid-late 1930s, non-mounted issue S84/98 T3 pattern. The marking (there may have been more) might be either a date or partial Luftwaffe organizational one. It almost looks like "L 37" to me. In addition, there may be evidence of some additional markings in the upper-left quadrant seen in photo # 6.jpg. Lastly, the frog-stud hole is quite rounded-out. The wear pattern leads me to think this frog may have once carried a bayonet other than a S84/98 T3 during much of it's service life.

Additional Resources for German Frogs:

Standard German Frogs:

Standard German S84/98 T3 Frogs

In this next thread, I want to present an array of what are considered standard military frogs for the S84/98 T3. From 1934 to 1945 there are a number of subtle variations found in the manufacture of these frogs. This is attributable to the large number of manufacturers engaged in producing...

www.k98kforum.com

German Luftwaffe Frogs:

Frogs Procured for the Luftwaffe

Frogs procured for the Luftwaffe are found in the same patterns for those of the Heer. Finish was in natural brown or treated leather until 1940. Most will be found with a "L.B.A." or "L.B.A.(S)" marking "Luftwaffe BekleidungsAmt (Sud)" on the obverse along with a manufacturer's...

www.k98kforum.com

German Tropical Frogs:

The S84/98 T3 Tropical Frog

As an alternative to leather and initially for use in the tropical climate of the Mediterranean, the Germans produced a new pattern of frog made of heavy cotton webbing. These frogs are found in primary colors of olive drab, reed green, a yellow ocher, tan, and indigo blue. However, some are...

www.k98kforum.com

German Reissued & Foreign Frogs:

German Reissued Foreign Frogs for the S84/98 T3

In this last post covering frogs for the German S84/98 T3, reissued foreign frogs to accommodate the S84/98 T3 and similar bayonets (such as the SG24(t), 24(j), & 29(p)) are presented. Not covered are foreign frogs which were used by the Germans to carry bayonets for non-Mauser 98 pattern...

www.k98kforum.com

German Police & Unusual Marked Frogs:

German Police & Unusual Markings on Standard Frogs

Police frogs for the S84/98 T3 are found treated with what might be considered "Police Brown" color. Those made prior to 1941 are usually very nicely constructed. Subsequent issue of frogs for the Police appear to be lacking, so is likely the Feldgendarmarie took to wearing frogs dyed black and...

www.k98kforum.com

 

[Muttley]

Thank you very much pwcosol. A truly professional analysis. I too thought I was reading "L 37" (or 1937?), but this acronym meant nothing to me.
Obviously I had already studied your posts on German frogs that you linked, but I wasn't able to find any evidence. I will study better.....
In any case, I understand that you confirm it is a German war or pre war frog. Right?

 

[AndyB]

It could be too a B?37 depot location and date , strange is little the washers are alu? and rivets brass, but i would personally preffer not LW as normally in that time frame used a LBA and unit stamps on their frogs.

 

[pwcosol]

It could be too a B?37 depot location and date , strange is little the washers are alu? and rivets brass, but i would personally prefer not LW as normally in that time frame used a LBA and unit stamps on their frogs.

Was thinking the same thing about the washers. In the first photo, I see washer on the lower left is missing. It is not unusual to see frogs exhibiting substantial field usage minus a washer (or rivet) as well. IMHO, it is more likely the original copper or brass rivets were inadequately peened, washers eventually popped off and field replaced w/alloy ones (which look about ready to go themselves).

Thank you very much pwcosol. ... In any case, I understand that you confirm it is a German war or pre-war frog. Right?

Copper & brass rivets/washers were used on military frogs during the inter-war years up to the mid-1930s. Then aluminum alloy rivets/washers primarily became the norm until superseded by steel... probably because aluminum (like the earlier copper/brass) were critical war materials reserved for more important uses. So, your frog appears to be from the latter 1930s and prior to the onset of WW2.

 

[Muttley]

Was thinking the same thing about the washers. In the first photo, I see washer on the lower left is missing. It is not unusual to see frogs exhibiting substantial field usage minus a washer (or rivet) as well. IMHO, it is more likely the original copper or brass rivets were inadequately peened, washers eventually popped off and field replaced w/alloy ones (which look about ready to go themselves).

In reality the washer on the lower left is not missing. It's just the leather that's broken

 

[Slash]

Thank you very much pwcosol. A truly professional analysis. I too thought I was reading "L 37" (or 1937?)

There are a couple of LLG or LAGO concerns that used a L _ _ suffix to represent the date (L36, L41, etc). So the L37 marking could be in that arena. Only problem with this theory is that the frog in question appears to be earlier than the LLG cooperatives. Then again we see new things all of the time .....

 

[AndyB]

Yes it could be a repair with different material of rivets, the L37 could be for Location and date. Possible the L is not for LLG but more real for storage deciphering. The real maker is not visible already. Strange is too the large hole and the rectangular shape of it in upper part, teoretically this could be too a police frog.

 

[Muttley]

Thanks to everyone for the professional contributions. It's a pleasure to read your posts and learn new things about my frog.