Third Party Press

Weird frog

Czech, polish and magyar repro makers mainly made so good copies of web frogs You would have problem to differenciate it from a real one after some decades, this one presented in first post is clearly a repro piece, so made as it should be clear recognisable as not origin. I went to each Prague shows in 1998-2015 period, there was ammount of them, after patination You will never see any differences unfortunally. And the first frog is not made in czech republic probably, but by some other source.
From this i personally like a piece even damaged but good history, found in a attic, or in good well confirmed source, as any untouched unused frogs are for me problematic.
 
Sure, they made web frogs right up until the last day of the war I am sure, so there's your answer you so desperately wanted. Anyone who thinks web was only used and produced for DAK items isn't too bright. Just as those who think anything painted ordnance tan has got to be DAK.

That securing strap and stud in the example you show looks absolutely nothing like the frog you originally posted, which looks exactly like the repro frog that Luftpirate posted...which is a huge sticking point in your argument.

Buddy, I may have been sarcastic, but not angry, you don't know angry, and if I am you will surely know.

I just calls 'em as I see's 'em. Your post strikes me as many posts over the years I have seen from guys who have made up their minds whether they admit it or not, that their item is good, and come up with every possible reason why its real and original no matter how unlikely it appears to be. Nothing wrong with that, argue your case to your hearts content, but I am allowed to have a differing opinion.

I am looking forward to seeing more opinions. Just from what I have seen posted, and pics provided, I have to lean to the no good side. Don't really care if you agree or not, I watch these threads for the amusement, entertainment value. You sure you weren't previously known as Shooter Ike?
Again, I don’t know if you have problems with understanding what I write or you just choose to make stuff up. I wrote that the base material, weave pattern are very similar if not the same as the ones I posted, I never said that the cross strap is the same, stop putting words in my mouth.
I presented pretty big evidence in my opinion and you chose to simply ignore it or just change the subject.
The fact is I presented a proof that the weave pattern is similar, if not the same as on original late war examples.
Going further, I’m 100% sure, you will not post or even find a reproduction webbed frog made with this kind of base material with that weave pattern. The market should be full of this stuff.
I will not shoot down an item without having a proof that it is a repro, and if someone can present it, I will gladly accept it. So far no one commented on the weave pattern which is the same as with late war originals, neither posted a repro frog made from this kind of a material.
Instead of focusing on the subject, and bring something to the table, you get angry, sarcastic and playing detective. It’s my first time on this forum, never been here or had an account here before. So far you provide a little bit of entertainment but not much useful stuff for which this forum is built.
I believe there’s a big chance that the frog posted is sub thread as “repro sold on eBay” might be a real one, or made post ww2 with wartime czech parts (cross strap).
If Germans were using captured British, French, Russian, Polish, Italian materials to make equipment, I’m sure they used Czech parts. They were sitting in this country for 5 years.
 
IMHO, this conversation is getting hung up over base webbing comprising the body of the frog in question. Perhaps more focus should be directed at the cross-straps, "lug-type" catch stud, and thread utilized (still waiting to hear if a black-light test has been performed on this). Should any or all of this be confirmed as being non-original, the entire frog is tainted and argument over webbing used for the body rendered moot.
 
IMHO, this conversation is getting hung up over base webbing comprising the body of the frog in question. Perhaps more focus should be directed at the cross-straps, "lug-type" catch stud, and thread utilized (still waiting to hear if a black-light test has been performed on this). Should any or all of this be confirmed as being non-original, the entire frog is tainted and argument over webbing used for the body rendered moot.
Thank you for your input pwcosol.
The cross strap is just a small part of this frog, and everyone is ignoring the overall built, material used, stitching and shape, and shooting the frog down just because of the czech cross strap. Germans were so comfortable in czech, that they built they or own factories there, the country was under German occupation for 5 years, can’t anyone even acknowledge the possibility of Germans using czech parts in their frogs? I think it’s quite possible.
Besides that cross strap, nobody can produce similar photo of a reproduction frog looking like the one in this post.
Getting hung up one 1 negative, and ignoring 5 other positives, doesn’t sound fair to me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Aws
Do You have done the UV light test on this frog? certainly strange that this cross strap is declared as czech, even is on Ebay as a indian repro, what do You believe is the sign of czech cross strap??.
 
Do You have done the UV light test on this frog? certainly strange that this cross strap is declared as czech, even is on Ebay as a indian repro, what do You believe is the sign of czech cross strap??.
This is my fault. I referred to the hbt cloth on the end of the strap as 'Czech'. 'Similar to Czech' would have been a better definer. It looks similar to the czech materials that two zillion reproduction 'tropical' web WW2 German items are made from. Look at Vit-zemanek on ebay. I bought lots of this stuff from him 20 years ago. I'm sorry the op doesn't agree that this is a repro, and is using the base material as the reason. ATF and SMWholesale both use IDENTICAL shuttle loom materials for their repros. It's distinguishable only because it's brand new. Sorry for adding to the confusion
 
Thanks for explanation, this could be real, Vit Zemanek works in large numbers of repro stuff so most real came from same source of material.
 
Thanks for explanation, this could be real, Vit Zemanek works in large numbers of repro stuff so most real came from same source of material.
This is the last I'll say. I'm not communicating clearly. I'm not saying the op's frog came from vit-zemanek, I'm suggesting it's similar. I believe op's frog is an Indian/Paki/Chinese reproduction. Correct WW2 shuttle loom webbing is readily available now.
 
I am not going to engage in any long winded back & forth exchange over syntax or hair splitting as far as wording in this discussion. Have collected and studied German bayonet frogs for many years. With an emphasis on tropical patterns in web material. Simply said, this is not a frog I would purchase or retain in my collection. I believe that I am familiar with the individual that has apparently declared the frog to be original (Posts #12 & #16). And at least some of the images in #16 are from his collection. Have seen these or similar examples posted elsewhere and I am not convinced these frogs are original either. He is learned but not infallible. The material and construction are unusual. Not matching typical German made examples or those made with slave labor. Yes, the Germans had frogs made from captured material in a number of ghetto locations (not only Łódź). Even those pieces are observed in several “standard forms” and are generally quite recognizable. I find the ink stamping troublesome as well, letter code with 45. Almost all tropical frogs with maker stampings are dated 1942. A few 1943 dates have been reported. Most (if not all) of the later web frogs are unmarked as are the ghetto produced pieces.

And I must admit that the retaining strap and especially the metal stud are deal killers for me. The strap construction and material are so atypical that they bring the originality of the entire piece into question. In collecting, I have always lived by the rule of walking away from something that just doesn’t look or feel correct. In other words, if even the smallest of details does not seem 100% correct, put it down and walk away. This along with the fact that luftpirate has posted images of a clearly reproduction (seller’s description) frog with seemingly identical strap/stud construction are evidence enough for me to pass. My thoughts only …..
 
I am not going to engage in any long winded back & forth exchange over syntax or hair splitting as far as wording in this discussion. Have collected and studied German bayonet frogs for many years. With an emphasis on tropical patterns in web material. Simply said, this is not a frog I would purchase or retain in my collection. I believe that I am familiar with the individual that has apparently declared the frog to be original (Posts #12 & #16). And at least some of the images in #16 are from his collection. Have seen these or similar examples posted elsewhere and I am not convinced these frogs are original either. He is learned but not infallible. The material and construction are unusual. Not matching typical German made examples or those made with slave labor. Yes, the Germans had frogs made from captured material in a number of ghetto locations (not only Łódź). Even those pieces are observed in several “standard forms” and are generally quite recognizable. I find the ink stamping troublesome as well, letter code with 45. Almost all tropical frogs with maker stampings are dated 1942. A few 1943 dates have been reported. Most (if not all) of the later web frogs are unmarked as are the ghetto produced pieces.

And I must admit that the retaining strap and especially the metal stud are deal killers for me. The strap construction and material are so atypical that they bring the originality of the entire piece into question. In collecting, I have always lived by the rule of walking away from something that just doesn’t look or feel correct. In other words, if even the smallest of details does not seem 100% correct, put it down and walk away. This along with the fact that luftpirate has posted images of a clearly reproduction (seller’s description) frog with seemingly identical strap/stud construction are evidence enough for me to pass. My thoughts only …..
Thank you for your help Slash.
What you said about similarities between war time produced frogs I think is correct, this frog differs from them by quite a lot.
I will return this frog, seller will accept it back.
If any of the members have a photo of a reproduction frog made from this kind of material I would appreciate posting it, me, I couldn’t find one online.
Thank you to everyone who posted, li appreciate your help.

Cheers
 

Military Rifle Journal
Back
Top