Weird frog

[BlessedFallout]

hey guys,

So couple weeks ago I posted my blue Luftwaffe rig on the forum, and in the sub section I posted 2 photos of the frog I found online.
I picked it up today, and as promised, detailed photos are here.
The overall construction and weave pattern looks to be late war, but the construction of the cross strap throws me off.
Opinions are welcomed.

Thank you

 

[Humbarger]

Afrika Korp

 

[iron bender]

This is a reproduction. I'm sorry but I can't remember who sold these. I owned one 20 years ago. I think soldat.com sold them. The stud plus the Czech webbing on the strap are give aways. The blue web set you have is incredible. You should return this frog if possible.

 

[BlessedFallout]

This is a reproduction. I'm sorry but I can't remember who sold these. I owned one 20 years ago. I think soldat.com sold them. The stud plus the Czech webbing on the strap are give aways. The blue web set you have is incredible. You should return this frog if possible.

Thank you Iron Bender, I love that blue set.
Would you be able to maybe find a photo of that soldat.com frog ? Or anything similar?
My online search didn’t produce much.

 

[BlessedFallout]

This is a reproduction. I'm sorry but I can't remember who sold these. I owned one 20 years ago. I think soldat.com sold them. The stud plus the Czech webbing on the strap are give aways. The blue web set you have is incredible. You should return this frog if possible.

One more question Iron Bender, was your frog also small compared to original examples? The frog I posted is smaller than the originals from 41-43.

 

[AndyB]

The piece is not correct in various way mainly on the secure strap, unfortunally not side by side pictures with normal web frog, to visible the different dimmension that You spoke about. personally i believe the stitching would glove by UV light as not old enough, same as the small leather cover of knob from upper side is of new leather not 75 years old, it should be smelled.

 

[BlessedFallout]

The piece is not correct in various way mainly on the secure strap, unfortunally not side by side pictures with normal web frog, to visible the different dimmension that You spoke about. personally i believe the stitching would glove by UV light as not old enough, same as the small leather cover of knob from upper side is of new leather not 75 years old, it should be smelled.

Thank you for your opinion Andy.
You don’t see any similarities with late war produced webbed frogs?

 

[AndyB]

Stiching is done as by normal webfrog, secure strap is different in his realisation. Never seen a black painted knob of this form on real german webfrogs.

 

[luftpirate]

Yes they were sold to reinactors as already stated and on ebay as reproductions. Looks very similar to every other repro "DAK" frog being hand made in India and China.

 

[BlessedFallout]

Yes they were sold to reinactors as already stated and on ebay as reproductions. Looks very similar to every other repro "DAK" frog being hand made in India and China.

View attachment 363305View attachment 363322

Thanks Luftpirate!
So I’m guessing this similar setup (the cross strap) was used on other repro frogs? Because the material looks different.

 

[CanadianAR]

Agreed, it’s a bad one.

 

[BlessedFallout]

This is a reproduction. I'm sorry but I can't remember who sold these. I owned one 20 years ago. I think soldat.com sold them. The stud plus the Czech webbing on the strap are give aways. The blue web set you have is incredible. You should return this frog if possible.

Czech webbing and lots of other equipment were used and/or modified by Germans during ww2. For example, Germans used British webbing in late war frogs and these were produced in Litzmannstadt ghetto by Jews. I have consulted an expert in the field and he believes this frog is 100% original very late war production. The material which this frog is made from has exactly the same weave as other late war pieces and this type of weave was never used in reproduction frogs, there are no webbed repro frogs made from this kind of material.
Also, lots of unissued new-old stock items from the war were found in depots in Czech Republic, Yugoslavia, Poland etc. I believe the frog you posted as a reference (reproduction one) was made with that leftover material, or maybe it’s even original.
I’m still waiting for Slash to voice his opinion, I hope he comments on it.

 

[pzjgr]

Your right, it surely original, these guys don't know what they are talking about...

Obviously the guys making repros found the stash of original late war oddball studs and used them in their repro, sneaky devils...

Are there identifiers on it?

 

[BlessedFallout]

Your right, it surely original, these guys don't know what they are talking about...

Obviously the guys making repros found the stash of original late war oddball studs and used them in their repro, sneaky devils...

Are there identifiers on it?

You have to calm down a little, you are getting way too excited, also I never said that people who commented on the thread don’t know what they are talking about. They brought good points to the argument, but there are explanations for it.
Nobody can produce a photo of a repro frog made from this type of canvas and with the same weave pattern, there are only confirmed originals who have a weave pattern like that.
Let me start a conversation with you using this question and then we will move forward if you want.
Do you believe that webbed frogs were produced till the last months of the war?
Or they just stopped producing them right after African campaign ended?

 

[pzjgr]

I believe you are coming here with a pre-conceived notion that the frog is good, regardless of what people here may say. Your experts already vetted it, and your mind is made up and you are going through the usual stretches to validate your hypothesis.

Its a variant no one has ever seen. Maybe the stud, while never seen on a good original frog, but has been shown on a known repro in Luftpirates post, maybe just a late war variant that was never used. Etc, Etc.

While ANYTHING is possible, until you can produce known originals that show the same material, construction, hardware, all things point to a post war made item, whether an actual issue item, a legit repro, or made to deceive.

I am quite calm, you seem to be the one getting excited about defending your questionable acquisition. Find real evidence not guesses and conjecture, and I will gladly admit my hypothesis is wrong, and its good. Guys on this board have literally written books on various things covered here, and guys like AndyB are some of the most learned guys in the world, so I trust the collective judgement of the members here. And Luftpirates example which is stated as a repro looks spot on pretty much to yours as far as construction and materials including the odd re-enforcement on the strap, and very distinct and odd stud.

Good luck for your quest for verification...

 

[BlessedFallout]

No I’m not coming here with my mind already made up, it was actually today when I was contacted by the person who told me it’s an original.
You were angry and sarcastic in your first comment, no doubt about that, this is disappointing.
And you didn’t even answer my question… you are trying to play a psychologist here but you get stuff backwards and totally incorrect, it seems to me you are a bit confused.
I don’t even think you are acknowledging the fact that webbed frogs were even produced up until the last months of the war, that’s why you didn’t answer the only question I asked.
Here are the examples with similar weave pattern. Last example is a frog made with captured British webbing in Litzmannstadt ghetto late in war.

 

[pzjgr]

Sure, they made web frogs right up until the last day of the war I am sure, so there's your answer you so desperately wanted. Anyone who thinks web was only used and produced for DAK items isn't too bright. Just as those who think anything painted ordnance tan has got to be DAK.

That securing strap and stud in the example you show looks absolutely nothing like the frog you originally posted, which looks exactly like the repro frog that Luftpirate posted...which is a huge sticking point in your argument.

Buddy, I may have been sarcastic, but not angry, you don't know angry, and if I am you will surely know.

I just calls 'em as I see's 'em. Your post strikes me as many posts over the years I have seen from guys who have made up their minds whether they admit it or not, that their item is good, and come up with every possible reason why its real and original no matter how unlikely it appears to be. Nothing wrong with that, argue your case to your hearts content, but I am allowed to have a differing opinion.

I am looking forward to seeing more opinions. Just from what I have seen posted, and pics provided, I have to lean to the no good side. Don't really care if you agree or not, I watch these threads for the amusement, entertainment value. You sure you weren't previously known as Shooter Ike?

 

[heavy_mech]

Not the Shooter... Do I hear a Folke Myrvang?

 

[pzjgr]

Not the Shooter... Do I hear a Folke Myrvang?

lol, could be, could be...

 

[AndyB]

About czech web material, from sources is not confirmed that they produced in war period web material, there are no reports of delivering to germans in war, what made czechoslovak, they copied the web material postwar, from this material are the web frogs probably avialable, i believe some of the lastly presented frogs are problematic, the web frogs are already faked since early 70ies, so You would have problem, as already all this items are more as 50 years old. The used material is even older directly from postwar period. Similar 45 date inkstamp are very problematic.