Walnut stock finish?

[waw44]

So I was messing with this stock a little more and happened upon an interesting result. I had cleaned the old finish with citrus stripper and wanted to get a darker result . First I went with Herters walnut stock filler , then once that dried did a coat of mixture of fiebings alcohol dye and BLO and turpentine , hand rubbed thin. Then , still wanting a darker finish, I waited a few days until I thought it had dried and wanted to apply a straight walnut dye . Well, seems the previous coat was not 100% dry , and in some cases the dye soaked more than others.

The results were surprising, in a good way. The stock came out with the blochiness of an old walnut stock that has had dirt and grime pressed into it over the ages . The dye was rubbed in with a cotton cloth and light pressure , just enough to work it into some oil , but not enough to soften and remove the oil altogether .

 

[thisistheway]

Very nice! I wonder if using the Herter's filler is what gave you that (desirable IMO) uneven dye absorption. It's not supposed to seal the grain obviously but maybe it at least runs a bit of interference? I'm not a fan of the factory finish on my Minellis stocks but hadn't decided what to do with them. What color of Fiebing's dye did you use in the BLO/Turp blend? Just the black as a darkener or one of the browns? And what kind of walnut dye did you finish with? Minwax or something more sophisticated?

 

[waw44]

Very nice! I wonder if using the Herter's filler is what gave you that (desirable IMO) uneven dye absorption. It's not supposed to seal the grain obviously but maybe it at least runs a bit of interference? I'm not a fan of the factory finish on my Minellis stocks but hadn't decided what to do with them. What color of Fiebing's dye did you use in the BLO/Turp blend? Just the black as a darkener or one of the browns? And what kind of walnut dye did you finish with? Minwax or something more sophisticated?

Fiebings walnut dye, both in the BLO/turpentine/dye layer as well as final coat. The dark spots is the dye soaking into the still soft oil layer. By itself , in raw wood,the dye will be very dark . Think Long Branch Enfield no.4 stocks. In oil , it goes on light, hence oil undercoat allows control of how dark you want to go.

 

[thisistheway]

Nice. I have half a bottle of RGL "antique walnut" alcohol-based dye I'm not a huge fan of on its own but maybe this type of mixed application is where it can be put to use.

 

[Rupert]

I really like your last run at staining the new stock, excellent!

 

[Muncher 1953]

Fiebings walnut dye, both in the BLO/turpentine/dye layer as well as final coat. The dark spots is the dye soaking into the still soft oil layer. By itself , in raw wood,the dye will be very dark . Think Long Branch Enfield no.4 stocks. In oil , it goes on light, hence oil undercoat allows control of how dark you want to go.

Just as info, today I went to a fabric store & bought 2 bottles of Fiebings leather dye, dark brown & black. Reading the labels, they are WATER based, no alcohol. I don’t doubt that older bottles of this brand may be alcohol-based, but current stock is water-based. This is because the epa/dot nazis have sneaked in draconian shipping restrictions on previously commonly shipped products, in this case small amounts of various alcohols. Materials like alcohol-based mold releases have been banned, disrupting the supply of stuff we like, such as acra glas.

The reason the change is significant is in how the dye & its’ water carrier react with oil finishes or oil-based stains.

 

[waw44]

Just as info, today I went to a fabric store & bought 2 bottles of Fiebings leather dye, dark brown & black. Reading the labels, they are WATER based, no alcohol. I don’t doubt that older bottles of this brand may be alcohol-based, but current stock is water-based. This is because the epa/dot nazis have sneaked in draconian shipping restrictions on previously commonly shipped products, in this case small amounts of various alcohols. Materials like alcohol-based mold releases have been banned, disrupting the supply of stuff we like, such as acra glas.

The reason the change is significant is in how the dye & its’ water carrier react with oil finishes or oil-based stains.

Interesting . I did a quick Google search for a msds, but only found this old one. The product is advertised as alcohol based leather dye on Amazon, where I bought it. I’m sure water is an ingredient , just how much , not sure.

https://www.uww.edu/apps/riskmanagement/msds/fiebing_s_leather_dye-%23200_series_colors_except_white_and_grey-fiebing_company-_inc._6.1.92.pdf

 

[Muncher 1953]

Interesting . I did a quick Google search for a msds, but only found this old one. The product is advertised as alcohol based leather dye on Amazon, where I bought it. I’m sure water is an ingredient , just how much , not sure.

https://www.uww.edu/apps/riskmanagement/msds/fiebing_s_leather_dye-%23200_series_colors_except_white_and_grey-fiebing_company-_inc._6.1.92.pdf

I found another ‘SDS’ (as they’re called now) dated 2014 that lists water & ethanol (higher %age than water) but that’s still 8 years old, & this regulation change happened last (2021) summer, because that’s when Brownell’s started having trouble shipping their kits, & finding an acceptable substitute for their alcohol based mold release. Last year, I wanted some xylene to thin an epoxy for a stock repair, used to be able to get it in quarts at hardware & paint stores, now you can’t buy it in my state!
It’s my belief that the alcohol based dyes will penetrate better than the water based (because of lower surface tension) & dry more effectively before application of oil type outer finishes. I bought it specifically for a project with a birch laminated stock, which is almost white, like basswood.

 

[waw44]

I found another ‘SDS’ (as they’re called now) dated 2014 that lists water & ethanol (higher %age than water) but that’s still 8 years old, & this regulation change happened last (2021) summer, because that’s when Brownell’s started having trouble shipping their kits, & finding an acceptable substitute for their alcohol based mold release. Last year, I wanted some xylene to thin an epoxy for a stock repair, used to be able to get it in quarts at hardware & paint stores, now you can’t buy it in my state!
It’s my belief that the alcohol based dyes will penetrate better than the water based (because of lower surface tension) & dry more effectively before application of oil type outer finishes. I bought it specifically for a project with a birch laminated stock, which is almost white, like basswood.

Looking forward to seeing the project. My frustration with posts like this is that posters often describe the process in vague terms like "mix color to match" or "apply stain" and don't get into specifics of color codes, proportions, products. I get that no two projects are likely the same, but some specific starting point would be good. That was my intent with posting the above stock and process.