V. Chr. Schilling 1915

[PrayingMantis]

From here on out I can never complain that I don't get deals on Gewehrs. I bought this mostly matching (all the important parts) 1915 V. Chr. Schilling with the best bayonet I've ever seen (an '18 Ernst Busch Solingen with scabbard and frog) for next to nothing. Unfortunately I forgot to get any images of the bayonet that came with it.

The gun itself has its shortcomings, however. The muzzle end of the barrel is pitted externally and the bore is pretty bad. It also came with a completely varnished stock. the first thing I did was clean off the varnish with excellent results, the barrel never improved even after some rough brushing. The rest of the gun is overall pretty nice considering what it is. Heavy patina, weak bluing here and there, but other than that the stock is solid and most of the parts match. It went through a rework at Mainz at some point, but I can't find any pieces that are restruck or repaired. The stock does have a 6 (or 9) below the serial number. Its hard to see in the picture but its very similar to a 5 on the stock of a '15 Amberg I had. Not sure what it means but its something to take note of. The mismatched parts are pretty typical; barrel bands and striker assembly. Unless I can find guaranteed Suhl pieces, I think I'll leave them mismatched. The matching triggerguard screws are unbuggered also, which I'm quite happy about.

I tracked down a '15 Schilling bayonet to go with it. Even though they wouldn't have been issued like this it still looks cool. It also looks good next to the '15 Sauer; too bad it'll be next to impossible to finish the year set for '15 Suhls.


V. CHR. SCHILLING SUHL 1915

Receiver SN 5996b
Barrel SN 5996b S&S BJ 75
Front sight SN
Rear sight SN 96
Sight Slider SN 96, 96, 96
Ejector box SN 96
Trigger Sear SN 96
Front barrel band SN 34
Rear barrel band SN 34
Trigger guard SN 5996
Trigger guard screws SN 96, 96
Floor Plate SN 96
Follower SN 96
Stock SN 5996
Handguard SN 5996
Buttplate SN 5996b 6 R
Bayonet lug SN 96
Cleaning Rod SN 96
Bolt body SN 5996
Extractor SN 96
Safety SN 48
Cocking piece SN 48
Bolt sleeve SN 48
Firing pin SN not marked

 

[PrayingMantis]

Here's what the stock looked like when I got it. The varnish looked like it was pretty old.

 

[Loewe]

A very wonderful score here! VCS/1915 is the least reported of the 1915 Suhl makers (minus Simson), and any early Suhl rifle is hard to find in anything like original condition. I agree finding the rest of the 1915 Suhl's in original "Imperial" will be a chore, one that will probably take some time, but doable I think. A 1915 Simson will be the toughest, especially original condition, as only one is known for sure in the US (3 known, only 2 documented, the KCN rifle is in Europe), - they had a late start apparently so I doubt many were made.

The rifle looks really nice and original, and I like the JPS barrel on it, many have them, and this trend continued through 1944 as JPS is best known as a barrel maker and assembler. That Busch bayonet is pretty tough to find too!

Re- the barrel, might try a few rounds through it, sometimes that helps.

 

[Jim Noeller]

V.Chr. Schilling 1915

PrayingMantis and SimpsonSuhl, I am Jim Noeller and the same name on Gunboards.com. I have 2 threads with pictures there that we wrote about my 1903 Gew 98 Spandua just few days ago. I just got set up here this morning reading last night and can see your pictures just know. Mantis, on your very 1st post here of your Great new Gew in thumbnails the 7th picture, one just following the one with serial in the stock has the very mark in your stock just like my mark you was helpig to solve for me on my buttplate. On wood it is bigger and has bars on the stamp on top and bottom that my steel stamp does not. That is it!! The top part of your's and mine under the stamp bar is not clear, But botom circle part is identical. I am not handy enough to put that picture on this reply or I would. You must have a wonderful piece here, very nice. You know what my mark is now, let me know. Maybe your friend SimpsonSuhl has something to add also. Thank You very much. Jim,

 

[PrayingMantis]

Hey Jim, good to see you on here.
Glad that proof on my gun is similar to what you were talking about. It makes sense now; I never thought about it but that proof mark does kind of look like a treble cleft. It's a pretty common proof though. I've seen variations on Amberg, DWM, and Schilling gewehrs. Very likely that your armorers stock was made somewhere where that proof was being used.

 

[Loewe]

Welcome Jim, I saw your posts on Gunboards, and PM and Mike correctly answered your question I think. Generally, a stock without a cypher and acceptance on the right side is an ordnance spare. Several things about your rifle points that way, the bolt in paticular, but a simple and clear picture of the right side of the stock and buttplate will answer your question with certainty.

BTW, proofs are only on the barrel, receiver and bolt, all other markings are acceptance stamps or the cypher.

 

[PrayingMantis]

BTW, proofs are only on the barrel, receiver and bolt, all other markings are acceptance stamps or the cypher.

Thanks Paul, I'll update my terminology.

Here is the c/B mark I was talking about in our email. Its only a limited observation, but it is interesting.
1) JP Sauer 1915
2) JP Sauer 1917
3) V Chr Schilling 1915
4) CG Haenel 18 (bayonet)
5) CG Haenel 1916 (poached from Gunboards)
6) CG Haenel 1918 (poached from Gunbroker)

 

[Jim Noeller]

V Chr Schilling 1915

PM, Also noticed in this last post the image #3 v chr Schilling both the center and the right marks are some what similiar to my 1903 Spandau buttplate mark. The mark on your stock is identicaL. If that is the same rifle that might mean something or not? Tell Simpson I will try to get a picture of the right stock and buttplate coming but I swear there is no marks on the stock sides either side or on the disk. I do see something similiar to your marks in you orginal varnished stock right side picture to my underside of the stock marks. I could also could have a way deep set imperial mark similiar to your lower one below the the 2 bigger ones. This shows in my disk picture, something could have been removed in that spot, don't show though. Later Jim,

 

[Loewe]

Here is my "a" block 1916 Simson.

I see what you mean, and I think you could be right, CGH made the receivers and that is why they all have the hardness stamp C/B, and CGH are all C/B because they made the receiver and assembled the rifle.

Very possibly CGH made most of the receivers, JPS the barrels (many of the Suhl consortium rifles have S&S barrels, regardless of the name on the receiver), and other Suhl firms focused on their responsibility. Of course we would need to develop a large trends study to determine the likelihood.

 

[Loewe]

Yes, no need to picture the location as that is why Mike and PM suggested an armorers stock- if it lacks a cypher then that is certainly what it is.

Tell Simpson I will try to get a picture of the right stock and buttplate coming but I swear there is no marks on the stock sides either side or on the disk.