Tips on spotting faked all matching rifles?

[Sqoits]

Hey everyone.

First of all, I totally respect if the most straightforward answer is to buy some literature and lurk more. I've been doing just enough research to understand how vast and subtle the features on these rifles can be. It also happens to be why these rifles are so interesting. I have been into historical military rifles for a long time, and I am aware of most Mauser variants, the K98, and its lookalikes. So I can confidently say I wouldn't fall for an RC, a Yugo/Czech refurbish, or anything obvious like that. My goal is to simply acquire a nice (preferably) matching K98k for my WW2 collection.
I've been browsing through some threads on here specifically on users having their rifles evaluated by the community for authenticity, and I'm astounded to see some rifles that look totally innocent to me being identified as having been tampered with. Like I really thought it would be more obvious than it actually is.
Honestly the more I see, the more convinced I am that I need some literature to verify serial number ranges and every variant of German proof mark. But at the very least, how are you guys able to spot faked serial numbers? Sloppy stamping? Too many or too few digits for a given part? I'm guessing the previous numbers need to be ground off, but I've seen fakes where even the blueing looks intact.
So yeah, I think I've conveyed the extent of my ability on this. If you could share your investigative process, any of the slightly less obvious hallmarks of an inauthentic rifle, I'd greatly appreciate it. I plan on getting decently skilled at this before pulling my wallet out for anything.

 

[THunter]

Hello & Welcome.

After awhile of collecting you develop an “eye” for spotting things wrong. For the most part the serial numbers on the reciever and barrel wont be tampered with. BUT I have seen some fakes where they were tampered with.

The majority of serial numbers that will be faked will be the bolt, the stock, triggerguard and barrel bands. The most obvious clue will be the fonts. Luckily the fakers haven’t replicated ww2 german fonts very well…yet.

The second thing to look for is there any signs of grinding/polishing on these parts where the serial number in question would be. You learn how certain parts are machined & supposed to look.

Same with proof marks and waffenamts.

Study the picture reference sticky on this forum. Compaire legit known examples to the rifle in question. When in doubt, ask the forum.

 

[BigShell]

Learn numbering conventions for various years and manufacturers. Where numbers SHOULD be on certain parts, and more importantly, where they should NOT. You can accomplish this easily by studying the pic reference and if you want to spend some coin (and you should if you’re getting into 98’s), get the Karabiner 98k book set.

 

[Sqoits]

Study the picture reference sticky on this forum. Compaire legit known examples to the rifle in question. When in doubt, ask the forum.

I somehow missed that thread, but wow, it's super helpful! I'll definitely be pouring over these. It's already helped me screen a certain rifle I found online.

if you want to spend some coin (and you should if you’re getting into 98’s), get the Karabiner 98k book set.

I'm a little on the fence about spending three digit doll hairs on books that could be spent on a rifle, but yeah, I'm beginning to think it would make a lot of sense. Better to spend more on what you know than less on what you don't know.

 

[Cyrano4747]

Let me put it this way:

1) The books are interesting in and of themselves.
2) they can be re-sold for roughly what you would pay for them.
3) any rifle you're looking at buying will cost COMFORTABLY four figures.

Educate yourself, it's a no brainer.

As for the rest of it, as others have said you develop an eye. The big part is looking at fonts and getting a feel for what font a particular factory was using in a particular year. If nothing else, the bolt font not matching the receiver font is a big red flag. Beyond that you're looking at things like signs a number was etched rather than stamped, signs of grinding, signs of refinishing, etc.

 

[learjet]

take an ipad with you to the shop and use the stickies to compare fonts, features etc. The books are great! If the guns close you can take them along. I travel for work so often rely on the stickie examples. Ask the shop holder to hold the gun 24hrs, take good pix and post them here. I wont plunk down the $ today for a k98k unless i can examine all the numbers including the internal ones on the stock/handguard

 

[Remfan]

Buying from our forum here is a safer bet of getting an honest example. Members here pride themselves with honesty. Nice for a change

 

[Sqoits]

Lots of great friendly feedback! Thanks guys. Consensus seems to be to read up, so I'll look into getting Karabiner 98k.

Buying from our forum here is a safer bet of getting an honest example. Members here pride themselves with honesty. Nice for a change

I'll be keeping an eye on the trader subforum for sure. I do enjoy the hunt of finding a rifle out in the wild, but this community is great and I can't say I'd be opposed to helping out someone who wants to give their rifle a good home.

 

[heavy_mech]

Lots of great friendly feedback! Thanks guys. Consensus seems to be to read up, so I'll look into getting Karabiner 98k.

I'll be keeping an eye on the trader subforum for sure. I do enjoy the hunt of finding a rifle out in the wild, but this community is great and I can't say I'd be opposed to helping out someone who wants to give their rifle a good home.

Couple things to add. First, I also think the books are very interesting in and of themselves beyond being THE reference standard. The other comments regarding the books are also valid points. Something else you might try is searching for previous threads where we've 'outed' frauds. These can range from complete jokes and those will most likely be in the 'Turd Alert' threads to really well done examples that require a much higher level of knowledge and a well focused eye. The latter can be very difficult to detect, especially if you're relatively new to the hobby. Welcome.

 

[Cyrano4747]

Couple things to add. First, I also think the books are very interesting in and of themselves beyond being THE reference standard. The other comments regarding the books are also valid points. Something else you might try is searching for previous threads where we've 'outed' frauds. These can range from complete jokes and those will most likely be in the 'Turd Alert' threads to really well done examples that require a much higher level of knowledge and a well focused eye. The latter can be very difficult to detect, especially if you're relatively new to the hobby. Welcome.

Something else I'll add is that you don't have to jump in the deep end right away. If a gun is being advertised as a bolt mismatch, for example, it's way less likely to have other parts on it faked. Anyone who is going to bother faking a SN isn't going to stop at the front band and leave the bolt alone when they could shoot for that all matching money.

So pick up a bolt m/m or even something more humble to start with and use it to learn. Then, as you move forward, sell it on and roll that money towards an all matching example.