Suspicious K98's

[Nevada K98 Collector]

Hello there collectors,

I joined this forum back this July, so I am new here. I do have a question that will probably be annoying to experienced collectors here on the forum, but I was curious about the authenticity of k98k's. I think I know the answer to this question, but I just wanted to verify. The question is what are non-original/fake k98k's. When you are looking for these rifles, what do you have to watch out for? Are there any Reproduction/post-war German K98's? Or are these Rifle normally real, but a fake k98k is referred as being refinished/re-blued and renumbered/humped. Once again, I am a beginner collector here, so I am sorry to waste your time here, but it would be helpful to know the truth from the experts. Thank you.

 

[joryfreeburg]

Hello,

Here is the the best tool available to you:

Picture Reference Index

COPYRIGHT NOTICE: The pictures posted are the sole property of the K98k Forum Member who posted them. Any use of these photographs other than reference here without the express permission of the K98k Forum Member will be treated as a violation of U.S. Copyright law. This thread is an index of...

www.k98kforum.com

If you’re looking at a rifle, find the year and the maker and sometimes the letter block range and compare it to the vetted examples here in the picture index. If something is seeming out of the ordinary with the vetted examples, something is likely off with the rifle and it is time to pass on that example…..

 

[Nevada K98 Collector]

Hello,

Here is the the best tool available to you:

Picture Reference Index

COPYRIGHT NOTICE: The pictures posted are the sole property of the K98k Forum Member who posted them. Any use of these photographs other than reference here without the express permission of the K98k Forum Member will be treated as a violation of U.S. Copyright law. This thread is an index of...

www.k98kforum.com

If you’re looking at a rifle, find the year and the maker and sometimes the letter block range and compare it to the vetted examples here in the picture index. If something is seeming out of the ordinary with the vetted examples, something is likely off with the rifle and it is time to pass on that example…..

Thanks joryfreeburg. I've seen this thread before and I've looked at it, and mrfarb did an excellent job putting it together. I am also planning on getting those books by Bruce soon as well. They should help too.

 

[Fal Grunt]

This topic is widely discussed and you will come across quite a bit of it here on the forum. My personal opinion is that there are few true *fakes* quantitatively speaking. That is, for the thousands of rifles sold, only a very small number are actual fakes. There was an enormous number of reworked, hacked, modified, altered rifles that were "legitimate" alterations, that is, if you accept a governmental military or police force as legitimate.

Then there are rifles that are reworked, hacked, modified, or altered by importers. Much harder to know, but the signs are similar.

Then there are rifles that are reworked, hacked, modified, or altered by the general public. Much easier to know, the signs are usually obvious.

The difficulty lies in the small marginal number that might be considered fakes and how one defines a fake. There is nuance here, that even collectors do not agree on. For example, is replacing a mis matched numbered band with an un numbered band a fake? What about a bolt? Is welding up a mis matched numbered item to be un numbered a fake? It's a rabbit hole with a thousand passages.

I detailed in another thread visiting an aging gunmaker who had all the stamps and roll stamps and tooling to make nearly any make of Mauser or Luger. Numbered die sets, acceptance stamps, everything. He considered his work restorations. Is Turnbull's work a fake? or a restoration?

 

[Nevada K98 Collector]

This topic is widely discussed and you will come across quite a bit of it here on the forum. My personal opinion is that there are few true *fakes* quantitatively speaking. That is, for the thousands of rifles sold, only a very small number are actual fakes. There was an enormous number of reworked, hacked, modified, altered rifles that were "legitimate" alterations, that is, if you accept a governmental military or police force as legitimate.

Then there are rifles that are reworked, hacked, modified, or altered by importers. Much harder to know, but the signs are similar.

Then there are rifles that are reworked, hacked, modified, or altered by the general public. Much easier to know, the signs are usually obvious.

The difficulty lies in the small marginal number that might be considered fakes and how one defines a fake. There is nuance here, that even collectors do not agree on. For example, is replacing a mis matched numbered band with an un numbered band a fake? What about a bolt? Is welding up a mis matched numbered item to be un numbered a fake? It's a rabbit hole with a thousand passages.

I detailed in another thread visiting an aging gunmaker who had all the stamps and roll stamps and tooling to make nearly any make of Mauser or Luger. Numbered die sets, acceptance stamps, everything. He considered his work restorations. Is Turnbull's work a fake? or a restoration?

Fal Grunt, This is an excellent explanation that completely answered my question. When talking about k98's personally, "I" myself call re-bluing, original markings grinded off then restamped with repro and sometimes original stamps that we refer to as humped, and refinished stocks, "I've" always referred to that being the fake part about the rifle. I agree that everyone has different opinions and decisions on what to call fake about a rifle. Now if there were replaced parts like you said bolts, barrel bands, sights, and so on, "I" refer to that as just a "rework" because remember, parts were also replaced during the war duration as well, and of course there are also people out there who re-militarize a sporterized k98 with of course all mis-matched parts. Anyways, thank you so much for the help.