Steyr bnz 41 serial number study

[Stephan98k]

I looked for it but couldn't find a Steyr bnz 41 serial number study in the forum.

As is well known, there are two different variants of the Steyr K98k with "bnz 41" coded receiver:

- "Large Font" Steyr receiver with e/623 Waffenamt acceptance
- "Small Font" Radom receiver with e/77 Waffenamt acceptance

What is the highest known serial number with Steyr receiver and the highest known serial number with Radom receiver?

This question is very important, thank you very much.

 

[Aaron]

Does code "bnz 40" exist?

I think this is loosely relevant. I just got this mg34 Kit. When I was first told it was dot 1940 I didn't believe it as I couldn't find anything online. I asked s fellow member to look in the mg34/42 book where he found only one is known to exist, a 945 code which is a cutaway. These also show...

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There is a post in this thread by Loewe that may help, further down is a norwegian "bnz40" marked 1319L. What's interesting is this later example has the earlier acceptance stamps along the side, which may indicate they took quite some time to get accepted, as my j-block has the later style proofing on the top of the reciever.
Not that it helps, but my bnz41's are:
5464f (restored) small font Radom e/77x3 e/623 x1
5742g (norwegian) large font Steyr e/623 x4
5990j (restored) small font Radom e/77 x1 e/623 x1, this rifle has the final acceptance moved to the top of the receiver.

My K98k Collection

After about 10 years at it, I'm more or less calling my K98k projects "done". Every rifle I own is a restored sporter more or less except for my CE44, with some requiring far more work than others. Thank you to everyone who provided parts over the years, there are too many to name but you know...

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Nevermind, just finished reading the whole thread and saw you were already in it, my bad.

 

[heavy_mech]

Aaron didn't say who made the receiver on his j block, but highs I was able to find are 4705i for Radom and 7995j for Steyr.

 

[heavy_mech]

I found (I believe) 5308i here for a Radom receiver. Gun is a mess and it's hard to make out the serial number, but I think I got it. https://www.k98kforum.com/threads/seeking-info-on-bnz-41.42617/

 

[Aaron]

I found (I believe) 5308i here for a Radom receiver. Gun is a mess and it's hard to make out the serial number, but I think I got it. https://www.k98kforum.com/threads/seeking-info-on-bnz-41.42617/

I concur its an i block, also my post should be up to date, my 5990j is a Radom reciever.

 

[Dm1]

I have 8816G a kreigsmarine rifle in walnut. WaA623 accepted.

 

[a j s]

My matching 41 6848g Kreigsmarine has the 4 Waa623 reciever proofs.

 

[heavy_mech]

My matching 41 6848g Kreigsmarine has the 4 Waa623 reciever proofs.

I think I saw yours in an older post about a bnz 41.

 

[Stephan98k]

Thank you for your support, like I said, it's very important.

There are many new facts in the Steyr area, some of the old information are unfortunately wrong and need to be corrected.

In the other thread with the bnz 40 I have written:
"The "bnz 40" belong to the "660 1940" order/production run. The K98ks with the code "660 1940" and "bnz 40" in the "k" and "l" blocks got assembled in April/May 1941."
"By the way, in 1939 there was no K98k production, the assembly of the first order "660 1939" started in January 1940. By January 27, 1940, a total of 1,440 K98ks had been accepted."

One of the most important things: The previously assumed 1941 Steyr production numbers are not correct, due to the high number of K98k an error in the old document was assumed but it was a wrong assumption.

Correct is:
In 1941, the K98k production numbers was not lower than in 1940, but higher. The production numbers for 1941 even exceeds the numbers for 1942.
The "Large Font" Steyr receiver with e/623 Waffenamt acceptance and the "Small Font" Radom receiver with e/77 Waffenamt acceptance are a separate assembly run. These two assembly lines at Steyr-Daimler-Puch in Steyr assembled K98k at the same time, but one of the two lines started with the bnz41 first, the other assembly line followed a little later with the bnz41 receivers. These two K98k assembly lines at Steyr were strictly separated from each other, the K98k from the second assembly line even had its own name.

I have analyzed all Steyr production numbers up to and including 1942, so this is not a assumption.

You see, it's a very important topic and I'm not a Steyr collector, so I need your support.

 

[trinxet]

My contribution
bnz 41 8341 h (norwegian) large font Steyr e/623 x4
bnz. 41 3220 a (depot repaired?) small font Radom e/77 x1 e/623 x3

 

[Stephan98k]

My contribution
bnz 41 8341 h (norwegian) large font Steyr e/623 x4
bnz. 41 3220 a (depot repaired?) small font Radom e/77 x1 e/623 x3

Thank you for the data. Does the Sn. "8341 h" have the branch of service stamp on the right side of the stock? If the stamp is not present, based on the serial number there is a very good chance that it is a Kriegsmarine K98k.

PS: I hope the rust on the buttplate was easy to remove.

 

[trinxet]

Thank you for the data. Does the Sn. "8341 h" have the branch of service stamp on the right side of the stock? If the stamp is not present, based on the serial number there is a very good chance that it is a Kriegsmarine K98k.

PS: I hope the rust on the buttplate was easy to remove.

Not a Kriegsmarine I guess, I can see an H but is so thin that I'm not sure....
Rust not 100% gone but fixed....
Curious stock marking

 

[heavy_mech]

Curious stock marking

I agree. I wonder if anyone can decipher this stamp? under the butt plate? Definitely not something I've seen before.

 

[pzjgr]

Stephan, if it helps, I have a bolt mismatch bnz 41, large font, 3889 a block, Heer marked stock, e/623 acceptance...let me know what details you want, I have the dat sheet handy, but never posted this gun on the forum...

 

[Stephan98k]

Not a Kriegsmarine I guess, I can see an H but is so thin that I'm not sure....
Rust not 100% gone but fixed....
Curious stock marking

It might just look like a "H" because of the wood surface. I would rather say it is transitional, the eagle without branch of service. Around that time your K98k got assembled (j block) they stopped with the branch of service stamp. As I said, your bnz 41 probably served in the Kriegsmarine.

 

[Stephan98k]

I agree. I wonder if anyone can decipher this stamp? under the butt plate? Definitely not something I've seen before.

"Rudi Helbig
Schusterberg 8
Hamburg 80"

In 1985 this K98k was imported with many others by Frankonia Waffen Würzburg and in February 1986 it got a new firing proof in Mellrichstadt. It was sold to Rudi Helbig who lived at Schusterberg in Hamburg. He put the stamp on the butt of the stock between 1986 and 1993. It was sold around 5 years ago and there is a high probability that he was the last owner.

 

[Stephan98k]

Stephan, if it helps, I have a bolt mismatch bnz 41, large font, 3889 a block, Heer marked stock, e/623 acceptance...let me know what details you want, I have the dat sheet handy, but never posted this gun on the forum...

It's helpful, thank you for your support. Even if your data had not been important, I would have been happy about your participation - without participation, my work is pointless and I would probably stop it completely.

The barrel code "6B28 40 StG WaA623 (3)" I know from Paul's spreadsheet which is in the thread: steyr 1940 660 matching

Your information with the "large font" receiver is very important, because now we can clearly say your bnz 41 Sn. 3889a is a original Steyr K98k, assembled at the 1st assembly line and not a "K98k Pol." from the 2nd Steyr assembly line. Only now can we say in which period your K98k was assembled and it was in the beginning of October 1941. A "K98k Polish" bnz 41 from the Steyr 2nd assembly line in the "a" block would be assembled around June 1941.

Which style is the stock acceptance? It's a e/H with a large or small eagle?

Some Steyr bnz 41 in the "a" block up to the "c" block have a "R" stamp on the right side of the receiver. Do you have "WaA623 (4)" or "WaA623 (4) R" ?

 

[AngeloF]

Here is my all matching bnz41 with "WaA623 (4) R".

Serial number is 5813b.

I hope this Information helps!

So, as i understand my bnz41 came from the 2nd assembly line, right?

 

[Stephan98k]

Here is my all matching bnz41 with "WaA623 (4) R".

Serial number is 5813b.

I hope this Information helps!

So, as i understand my bnz41 came from the 2nd assembly line, right?

Yes, thank you very much for your support.

@pzjgr
The K98k from AngeloF is a good example: "Some Steyr bnz 41 in the "a" block up to the "c" block have a "R" stamp on the right side of the receiver. Do you have "WaA623 (4)" or "WaA623 (4) R" ?" It was a very good timing.

As far as I know, there is no confirmation in any document as to what the "R" actually means. It has been suspected for many years that the "R" could stand for Radom and that these receivers stamped with "R" are probably raw forgings from the Radom factory that were finished in Steyr.

I'm not sure who made this assumption first, but I think it came from Paul Shomper. There are several incidents at Steyr that I have discovered in original documents that support this assumption. During this time period they had a lot of trouble in Radom, in particular wiith the hardening of some parts like the receiver. Some of these unhardened parts were shipped to Steyr in this raw state and hardened in the hardening shop there, then used in production.
From a manufacturing point of view, it makes sense to mark these (third-party) receivers so that they remain identifiable in the event of any problems occurring. All this proved again how brilliant and important Paul's research is.

The K98k from pzjgr (bnz 41 Sn. 3889a) got assembled around calendar week 41 and your bnz 41 Sn. 5813b got assembled around calendar week 44, both at the Steyr K98k assembly line.
A K98k from the 2nd assembly line (Montanstrang II) in 1941 would have a "small font" code and got called "K98k Polish".

By the way, there is another "R" report in the Steyr bnz 41 "g" block - it's a different story and not an "R".

 

[Turbo Archie]

6927 E/77 small H 40Bo
815b 623(x4) R 40Bo
7300e 623(x4) small H
2631g 623(x4) 40RD