SSZZA4 bnz.43

[Dankrez28]

Where'd it pop up? I usually check GB daily for what's out there and aisde from this rifle im not aware of any others.

It was posted on here by a new member not on GB. The nicest SSZZA4 I have ever seen, worth big bucks…

BNZ 43 SS ZZA4 Authenticity

New to K98s and stumbled upon this fella. Matching serials aside from the bolt, which is matching to itself. I wanted to see what ya'll's thoughts on if this is authentic or a fake. Any help is appreciated.

www.k98kforum.com

 

[bda]

The bnz. roll mark on the receiver has the dot (.) After the letters. I thought that was used for Heer contract only and SS rifles did not have the dot

 

[Skrimpr]

Well folks, thank you all for your replies and insight. Obviously the consensus is that the rifle is restored, and yall know more than i do.

My hypothesis is that the bolt is good. The SN is stamped on the handle root and the shroud. SN acid etched on the safety flag and extractor (the extractor SN is only visible in the right light, only just found it yesterday). No SN on cocking piece (only E/77). No markings on firing pin.

My belief that the bolt is good stems from a reply by Mrfarb in another thread several years ago. A screenshot of the post is attached. He seems to have stated (paraphrased here) that bolts with stamped and acid etched numbers on later build SSZZA4 rifles are the exception to the rule that they would only have acid-etched parts. Forgive me if my logic is flawed, but his statement seems to imply that stamp/acid bolts on late builds DO exist, even if theyre less common than the purely acid etched.

Plus why would someone just have the correctly acid-etched parts lying around for the rifle but not the bolt body or shroud? Id say it’s unlikely even if used as a sporter.

The stamped SN font on the floor plate and bolt appear to match. Harder to tell with the front barrel band, but to my eyes it looks very similar, just possibly a better strike on the front band. I will be removing the white stuff from the markings when i get home tonight and will redo some pics.

Just so everyone understands, I do realize that this rifle may (likely) be a restored piece. I am happy with the rifle regardless. It feels like butter and has a *fantastic* bore, so if truly a restored piece it will make a great shooter. Since general sample size of these SSZZA4 rifles small, i’ll keep putting my “hypotheses” to the rifle into the thread for the sake of discord and personal learning. I truly appreciate all of you interacting and contributing.

 

[Skrimpr]

The bnz. roll mark on the receiver has the dot (.) After the letters. I thought that was used for Heer contract only and SS rifles did not have the dot

Yes thats right, but this isnt an SS contract rifle. SSZZA4’s are SS depot builds that used rejected parts to assemble rifles. Note the lack of SN, firing proofs, and acceptance stamps on the receiver. bnz. 43’s accepted for Heer use are usually tatted up with stamps.

Folks, feel free to correct me if anything i’m saying is incorrect.

 

[Dankrez28]

The bnz. roll mark on the receiver has the dot (.) After the letters. I thought that was used for Heer contract only and SS rifles did not have the dot

There are SS contract rifles with the . after Bnz. For the most part, SS soldiers used heer weapons so you would never know…

 

[Dankrez28]

Well folks, thank you all for your replies and insight. Obviously the consensus is that the rifle is restored, and yall know more than i do.

My hypothesis is that the bolt is good. The SN is stamped on the handle root and the shroud. SN acid etched on the safety flag and extractor (the extractor SN is only visible in the right light, only just found it yesterday). No SN on cocking piece (only E/77). No markings on firing pin.

My belief that the bolt is good stems from a reply by Mrfarb in another thread several years ago. A screenshot of the post is attached. He seems to have stated (paraphrased here) that bolts with stamped and acid etched numbers on later build SSZZA4 rifles are the exception to the rule that they would only have acid-etched parts. Forgive me if my logic is flawed, but his statement seems to imply that stamp/acid bolts on late builds DO exist, even if theyre less common than the purely acid etched.

Plus why would someone just have the correctly acid-etched parts lying around for the rifle but not the bolt body or shroud? Id say it’s unlikely even if used as a sporter.

The stamped SN font on the floor plate and bolt appear to match. Harder to tell with the front barrel band, but to my eyes it looks very similar, just possibly a better strike on the front band. I will be removing the white stuff from the markings when i get home tonight and will redo some pics.

Just so everyone understands, I do realize that this rifle may (likely) be a restored piece. I am happy with the rifle regardless. It feels like butter and has a *fantastic* bore, so if truly a restored piece it will make a great shooter. Since general sample size of these SSZZA4 rifles small, i’ll keep putting my “hypotheses” to the rifle into the thread for the sake of discord and personal learning. I truly appreciate all of you interacting and contributing.

At the end of the day, no one likes seeing a member purchasing a firearm that has minor issues including the stock and the band without knowing. However still a nice SSZZA4 receiver and still a good looking gun. I have purchased several rifles with plenty of issues, and had no clue in the past. If you paid a decent price, I would keep it for whats it worth. These rifles still aren’t easy to come by, especially SS contract k98’s. Still a nice rifle

 

[Skrimpr]

At the end of the day, no one likes seeing a member purchasing a firearm that has minor issues including the stock and the band without knowing. However still a nice SSZZA4 receiver and still a good looking gun. I have purchased several rifles with plenty of issues, and had no clue in the past. If you paid a decent price, I would keep it for whats it worth. These rifles still aren’t easy to come by, especially SS contract k98’s. Still a nice rifle

Dank, thank you for the kind words. I did get a decent price on it considering the crazy prices for k98k’s these days. I paid the gentleman $2100 shipped.

You seem pretty knowledgeable in SSZZA4’s and SS rifles, what do you think of my bolt hypothesis above?

 

[Dankrez28]

Dank, thank you for the kind words. I did get a decent price on it considering the crazy prices for k98k’s these days. I paid the gentleman $2100 shipped.

You seem pretty knowledgeable in SSZZA4’s and SS rifles, what do you think of my bolt hypothesis above?

Personally I don’t like the bolt, it doesn’t look good. I agree that its possibly been restamped, and the white numbering doesn’t look correct. For the rest of the rifle, like the bands im also suspicious. Unfortunately most rifles on gunbroker have issues, especially SS rifles. But, there are far more people on here that have more experience and are more educated on these rifles. I would say the issues are a fair assessment. Plus, SSZZA4’s aren’t all that common so its a minefield. I would say about almost every SS rifle I have seen on gunbroker always have an issue like; fake runes, fake deatheads, and are just trainwrecks. SSZZA4’s again you don’t see much, so its hard to tell

 

[Skrimpr]

Personally I don’t like the bolt, it doesn’t look good. I agree that its possibly been restamped, and the white numbering doesn’t look correct. For the rest of the rifle, like the bands im also suspicious. Unfortunately most rifles on gunbroker have issues, especially SS rifles. But, there are far more people on here that have more experience and are more educated on these rifles. I would say the issues are a fair assessment. Plus, SSZZA4’s aren’t all that common so its a minefield. I would say about almost every SS rifle I have seen on gunbroker always have an issue like; fake runes, fake deatheads, and are just trainwrecks. SSZZA4’s again you don’t see much, so its hard to tell

Thank you for your reply. If anyone else would like to chime in, im happy to learn from you.

 

[Skrimpr]

Also, would anyone happen to know what the asterisks on the stock butt would indicate? I dont see these on others.

 

[whcoyote]

Can’t answer your question but it looks to me like each asterisk was not made by one punch of the stamp. Looks like an “X” stamped, rotated and stamped again. One of them does not cross in the center.

Been where you are - disappointing but educational. Keep digging.

 

[conibear]

Thank you for your reply. If anyone else would like to chime in, im happy to learn from you.

My only K98 is a soviet capture SS zza4, bought it from my neighbor and shot it today for the first time. Guys on this forum were amazing telling me what it was and being helpful. If the rifle brings you joy, then that's all that counts. Congrats.

 

[Jdt]

It was posted on here by a new member not on GB. The nicest SSZZA4 I have ever seen, worth big bucks…

BNZ 43 SS ZZA4 Authenticity

New to K98s and stumbled upon this fella. Matching serials aside from the bolt, which is matching to itself. I wanted to see what ya'll's thoughts on if this is authentic or a fake. Any help is appreciated.

www.k98kforum.com

Oh I forgot i'd seen this! Absolute stunner of and example even if a bolt mismatch.

 

[RyanE]

Bolt is probably bad IMO. All the parts (maybe excluding the cooking piece) have been scrubbed which is unusual for the depot builds. It's common on the ZZA4 repair work, but builds are usually exclusively new/spare parts. Font doesn't look quite right either, and it appears to be the same used on the bad bands.

While the early ones do show up with stamped bolt numbers, those used a very small font on the parts. The more common later guns use a larger font, as seen on the barrel of this one. I don't think I have ever seen a later font gun with a stamped bolt, though I'm sure a few exist sonewhere.

 

[mrfarb]

For the price you did ok. A matching sszza4 is now north of 7k - with some 8-9k from recent memory.

As Ryan stated, the “later built” rifles were normally made with new components, but nothing is concrete on depot built anything, SS or not. We only have patterns and a gut feeling. I’ve seen many sszza4 rifles and even some with stamped numbered bolts - but, when you see an obviously bad renumbered part like these bands and stock you really need to question everything else.

Keep the rifle and learn from it. Remember that buying anything SS is a minefield, depot stuff aa well.

 

[Absolut]

My bnz43 SSZZA4 only has the last two digits on the barrel band, also is the bolt all EP on the parts and not stamped. Stock is a DH under K stamped one. I posted its pictures here: https://www.k98kforum.com/threads/ss-contract-bnz43-with-sszza4-stamp-and-deathshead-k-stock.46014/

 

[Skrimpr]

Thank you everyone for contributing. Attached are pics of the stamped bolt parts without the white crayon. Sorry for the delay.

 

[mdarnell19]

The numbering on that bolt is fake.

 

[CanadianAR]

Also, acid etch is an Outdated theory. Close examination of one of farbs rifles showed me it was a lost technic in modern times which still existed in my old shop.

Electric arc pen. That’s how these are marked as well as the markings on g/k41/43 bolts etc

 

[Skrimpr]

Also, acid etch is an Outdated theory. Close examination of one of farbs rifles showed me it was a lost technic in modern times which still existed in my old shop.

Electric arc pen. That’s how these are marked as well as the markings on g/k41/43 bolts etc

Interesting how they could do it without getting the “dots” on it you’d normally see on EP’d parts. I didnt know that acid etching was the outdated theory for these. Thanks for making aware