Some expert help would be appreciated.

Hi all,

I'm new here, and to the hobby in general.
So naturally it's my turn to add to the pile of these types of posts.

I've got my eye on a rifle at the moment, and I am in no way deluded in believing that it is a genuine factory sniper conversion. Nor does the seller appear to attempt to present it as such.

However, a rather helpful individual on reddit has identified a few pitfalls, beyond the obvious over-price, that I would appreciate some assistance in further investigating.

The link, for reference:
https://www.highwoodclassicarms.co.uk/Firerms For Sale/0130.htm

The concerns they raised are over the colour of the blueing on the extractor, and what appears to be electro-pencilled serial number on top of the bolt.
They indicated to me that these might be evidence of the rifle being a Russian capture.

Thanks in advance to all who answer.
 
The reddish color of the extractor is quite normal for period pieces and should be of no concern as far as safety. Electro penciled bolt numbers are indicative of that part (perhaps the whole rifle) being produced from a Russian captured k98. It makes sense to alter an RC for such a project, versus destroying a matching wartime original. A Russian captured rifle was simply a reblued, forced matched bunch of parts and was completely serviceable. It presents well.
 
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It is an altered RC see page 1 of this ancient post for Russian capture K98k attributes with pictures of my rifles and others :
it may take a few seconds to load?

 
The reddish color of the extractor is quite normal for period pieces and should be of no concern as far as safety. Electro penciled bolt numbers are indicative of that part (perhaps the whole rifle) being produced from a Russian captured k98. It makes sense to alter an RC for such a project, versus destroying a matching wartime original. A Russian captured rifle was simply a reblued, forced matched bunch of parts and was completely serviceable. It presents well.
As far as I can tell by holding my phone upside down, the electro penciled bolt number seems to closely resemble that of the serial number on the receiver and the butt.

Edit:
Which I now see may be force matched.
 
I just noticed that the eagle has been peened on the receiver as well.

Given that this is evidently an RC, but seems put together well, how much would this actually be worth?
 
Usually the sum of the parts
Aforementioned helpful reddit person suggested that the going rate for an RC in the US is $800-900 USD, and the scope would be valued at around $500-$800 USD.

Converted over to GBP and combined that's roughly £1000-£1300 GBP.

So they suggested an offer of £1200 GBP would be reasonable.

What would you say?
 
Welcome to the forum.

It may be worth bearing in mind that the K98k market here in the UK is quite different to the US. Nice examples are much rarer and tend to command a corresponding premium.

There were a few scoped K98ks at a recent Bisley show but few were under £2k and most were pretty ratty - certainly not as good as the one in your link appears to be.

I suspect that a Russian capture was chosen as the base rifle because the one thing you can say about RCs is that they sometimes have good bores. Bore condition, again, being a problem faced by many available K98ks here in the UK.

Judging from the video, this rifle is probably aimed at someone who wants to compete in historic competitions - again hence the price tag.

And before anyone says it, I’m not the seller!

AG
 
Welcome to the forum.

It may be worth bearing in mind that the K98k market here in the UK is quite different to the US. Nice examples are much rarer and tend to command a corresponding premium.

There were a few scoped K98ks at a recent Bisley show but few were under £2k and most were pretty ratty - certainly not as good as the one in your link appears to be.

I suspect that a Russian capture was chosen as the base rifle because the one thing you can say about RCs is that they sometimes have good bores. Bore condition, again, being a problem faced by many available K98ks here in the UK.

Judging from the video, this rifle is probably aimed at someone who wants to compete in historic competitions - again hence the price tag.

And before anyone says it, I’m not the seller!

AG
Noted, and thank you for replying.

Certainly seems that the rifle is in good nick, and as long as there's nothing inherently dangerous about an RC I don't see an issue with it being one.
Judging by your experience the price may be warranted, I had suspected that the market in the UK would account for the increased price.

Double is still steep, but I guess it just comes down to the market environment.
 
Perhaps the seller would accept an offer, I’ve no idea on that front.

I’m happy to offer some suggestions if that would be useful but I don’t want to do so if that would be unwelcome.

What are your goals? Collecting a few rifles, collecting loads, shooting, etc? Are you particularly looking for a sniper?

AG
 
Perhaps the seller would accept an offer, I’ve no idea on that front.

I’m happy to offer some suggestions if that would be useful but I don’t want to do so if that would be unwelcome.

What are your goals? Collecting a few rifles, collecting loads, shooting, etc? Are you particularly looking for a sniper?

AG
I'm very open to suggestions and advice.

Currently I'm still figuring out what I'm looking for.
I know generally I'm interested in doing Civilian Service Rifle shooting or just some general full-bore target shooting. I know a rifle from the 40s is no match for the more modern rifles, so I wouldn't expect to do amazingly, but I do think it would be fun.

I'd only start with the one rifle for now, it doesn't have to be a sniper or sniper replica, but I would certainly like one.
I just think they're neat, and the added benefit of an optic over irons.
I, like many I imagine, have long been fascinated with snipers and their weapons. I think the awakening for that was watching Enemy at the Gates when I was in my early teens. But that's not entirely relevant.
 
There are people on this forum that can tell you virtually all there is to know about a particular Mauser rifle from the font of one numeral stamped on a single metal part (almost). Likewise, there are people that have been shooting civilian service rifle (CSR) and historic service rifle (HSR) in the UK for 50 years. I am neither of those so all I can give are observations from my experience, which of course you are free to consider or discard as you see fit.

My first suggestion is to research the different CSR and HSR classes because some rifles can be used in very few matches (K98k being one of them) and some can cover most of them (Enfields). The place to start is the UK National Rifle Association CSR and HSR handbook and the 'Trafalgar' meeting handbook, available on the Bisley website. All the classes and matches are listed in there.

My second is that if you want to do formal CSR and HSR in the UK and you don't plan to have a whole collection of rifles, you're better off starting with a Lee Enfield No4 from the 1950s. Unlike K98ks, there's lots of them here, often in very good condition because they haven't seen much or any military service, the .303 is more than capable of putting a hole in some paper at any reasonable distance and it is much more forgiving and cheaper to shoot than 8x57. It's also great fun. Every other shooter on the range can help you get it zeroed nicely. You won't have to reload as much mid shoot, saving you time in timed competitions. You can get a good 1950s Enfield with a shiny bore and all matching numbers for about £700, although if you want an original scope there's plenty around but they'll cost you £5k plus. Even more important, you have a wide range of matches and classes to enter with an Enfield.

If you choose a K98k in formal HSR, you will be relegated to the 'all comers' class. That means competing against someone with a pristine M1903-A4 who will probably out shoot your score by a factor of three unless you have a similarly pristine originally scoped K98k, which will cost you a fortune and probably need to be imported from the US.

Sorry if the above sounds negative. If you have your heart set on a K98k, you can absolutely shoot and have a super blast, but you are very unlikely to be in competitive contention simply because of how the rules are written. And if you are struggling to get your shots on target, chances are no-one on the range will be able to help you out much.

Third. If we're talking informal CSR at a club, then you've generally no worry about different matches and classes. Can you compete in CSR with a bolt action service rifle? Yes. There's a good chance you won't come last. But you almost certainly won't come first or even in the top half of the table. That will be dominated by AR-style rifles using lower recoil rounds, magazines for quick reloading, and optics optimised for the specific course of fire. However, everyone will respect you greatly for taking the difficult option and you will make lots of friends.

Fourth. Full bore target shooting for your own enjoyment. Super. But you'll still need a rifle with a decent bore, which circles back to our previous posts. Personally, I would start with iron sights because you'll have a greater choice of rifle examples, but it depends on your eyesight and how much shooting experience you have. If you're a dab hand with a scope, of course crack on.

In summary. By all means get the K98k. But be clear about the competitive limitations. Take your time to find a good one with at least mostly matching numbers (including captures) and a decent bore. There's usually one or two every few months popping up in the UK, plus about three times as many that are not much more than a mess of parts and that, if posted here, will make the more learned members weep.

Hope this helps in some way.

AG

P.S. I chose the K98k. Which I now avidly collect but shoot mostly for pleasure. I've an Enfield and an M1903 for the competitions.
P.P.S. Imperial Mausers are a different story. There's a better supply of those in the UK, some of which are in excellent condition. But they won't have scopes.
P.P.P.S You can get K98ks competently re-barrelled here if you find a nice one that is just a bit worn - sacrilege to the collectors though.
 
There are people on this forum that can tell you virtually all there is to know about a particular Mauser rifle from the font of one numeral stamped on a single metal part (almost). Likewise, there are people that have been shooting civilian service rifle (CSR) and historic service rifle (HSR) in the UK for 50 years. I am neither of those so all I can give are observations from my experience, which of course you are free to consider or discard as you see fit.

My first suggestion is to research the different CSR and HSR classes because some rifles can be used in very few matches (K98k being one of them) and some can cover most of them (Enfields). The place to start is the UK National Rifle Association CSR and HSR handbook and the 'Trafalgar' meeting handbook, available on the Bisley website. All the classes and matches are listed in there.

My second is that if you want to do formal CSR and HSR in the UK and you don't plan to have a whole collection of rifles, you're better off starting with a Lee Enfield No4 from the 1950s. Unlike K98ks, there's lots of them here, often in very good condition because they haven't seen much or any military service, the .303 is more than capable of putting a hole in some paper at any reasonable distance and it is much more forgiving and cheaper to shoot than 8x57. It's also great fun. Every other shooter on the range can help you get it zeroed nicely. You won't have to reload as much mid shoot, saving you time in timed competitions. You can get a good 1950s Enfield with a shiny bore and all matching numbers for about £700, although if you want an original scope there's plenty around but they'll cost you £5k plus. Even more important, you have a wide range of matches and classes to enter with an Enfield.

If you choose a K98k in formal HSR, you will be relegated to the 'all comers' class. That means competing against someone with a pristine M1903-A4 who will probably out shoot your score by a factor of three unless you have a similarly pristine originally scoped K98k, which will cost you a fortune and probably need to be imported from the US.

Sorry if the above sounds negative. If you have your heart set on a K98k, you can absolutely shoot and have a super blast, but you are very unlikely to be in competitive contention simply because of how the rules are written. And if you are struggling to get your shots on target, chances are no-one on the range will be able to help you out much.

Third. If we're talking informal CSR at a club, then you've generally no worry about different matches and classes. Can you compete in CSR with a bolt action service rifle? Yes. There's a good chance you won't come last. But you almost certainly won't come first or even in the top half of the table. That will be dominated by AR-style rifles using lower recoil rounds, magazines for quick reloading, and optics optimised for the specific course of fire. However, everyone will respect you greatly for taking the difficult option and you will make lots of friends.

Fourth. Full bore target shooting for your own enjoyment. Super. But you'll still need a rifle with a decent bore, which circles back to our previous posts. Personally, I would start with iron sights because you'll have a greater choice of rifle examples, but it depends on your eyesight and how much shooting experience you have. If you're a dab hand with a scope, of course crack on.

In summary. By all means get the K98k. But be clear about the competitive limitations. Take your time to find a good one with at least mostly matching numbers (including captures) and a decent bore. There's usually one or two every few months popping up in the UK, plus about three times as many that are not much more than a mess of parts and that, if posted here, will make the more learned members weep.

Hope this helps in some way.

AG

P.S. I chose the K98k. Which I now avidly collect but shoot mostly for pleasure. I've an Enfield and an M1903 for the competitions.
P.P.S. Imperial Mausers are a different story. There's a better supply of those in the UK, some of which are in excellent condition. But they won't have scopes.
P.P.P.S You can get K98ks competently re-barrelled here if you find a nice one that is just a bit worn - sacrilege to the collectors though.
I just had a read through the NRA handbook for CSR/PR, I'm completely stunned at how geared it is towards Lee Enfields. I've got nothing against the rifles, and I'd love to own a few one day when I can afford to have more than one rifle, but I would have thought they'd be more accommodating to people who like the foreign stuff too.

I definitely need to look more into how those types of matches work before I commit to them.

For now I suppose that means I'm mostly interested in target shooting for fun with a club.

I wouldn't say I have my heart set on a Kar.98, I do think they're very interesting rifles though.
Nor do I have my heart set on a scoped rifle, although that would be a very desirable bonus.

I can't thank you enough for taking the time and effort to help me out.
It's been very informative.
 
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