Sauer LSR's

[Tiger 2 Tank]

I'm trying to see if I understand the LSR's (which is kind of confusing to me). So Sauer developed them in late '43 and early '44. Then Gustloff and Sauer were making them, but Gustloff made the bulk of them?

So, there would be early block letter coded Sauer LSR's out there? Mostly the ones I see are bcd coded but Sauer built. I read in my Kreigsmodell book on these but it seems it only addresses the later LSR's and all in the u or x blocked rifles. What was up early in Sauer production on these and why so few ce receiver rifles out there?

Do I have this right; Sauer developed them then Gustloff and Sauer were producing them and Gustloff producing most of them?

 

[mauser99]

That type of side rail mount long predates ww2. JPS with their sporter rifle knowledge no doubt used this type of mount on their rifles and drillings.
JPS possibly didn't even produce the mounts at all. HZW could be the source as they were a known producer in Zella Mellis.
JPS could have developed the SSR as a sniper platform and then moved into LSR development. I have seen late 43 dated and letter block CE43 marked 98's that were SSR snipers. The LSR of course required a purpose made receiver so there's that. Astra wereke seems to be the firm who was awarded that contract. As most standard type Late JPS receivers in 43 and 44 are Erma 280 coded.

Once the receivers and tooling and mounts were ready a second production run was needed. Gustloff werke was chosen. A firm much larger and more geared for mass production. The numbers could be deceiving and it could be just plain luck we see far more Gustloff assembled LSR's vs JPS.
JPS Lsr's are found in the u,v,w,x, maybe y as Radomman has that odd ball rifle.


Seeing and reading your post again.. All astra Werke receivers have the Bcd 4 roll mark in place. There was no apparent need to over stamp or create a dual code like the earlier
bcd/ar coded 98's.

Did JPS develop the thick walled receiver? Probably. They just couldn't produce them in large enough quantity.

 

[Tiger 2 Tank]

Wow, interesting stuff and many thanks. Okay, I have more questions.

So, early '44 ce stamped receivers (LSR) would be e/280 proofed (Erma) then? I was trying to see photos of late '43 and early '44 Sauer LSR's but can't seem to locate any. Just real curious on the development of them as those seem to me to be the most 'reliable' (I guess is the word for it) sniper system the Germans employed during the war. Wouldn't real late '43 and early '44 letter blocked ce stamped receivers (e/280) be out there somewhere? By what you stated JPS receivers made is referring to "non-e/280" proofed ones correct (blocks u-y)?

Kind of confusing and I'm trying to sort it all out.

And, did some SSR's get mixed or overlaped with the early employment of the LSR's like it seems a lot of things did (meaning overlaps)?

 

[mauser99]

I have seen what I feel was legit a Ce43 coded short side rail rifle. Not long side rail. I'm trying not to overstate and going off memory what I have seen and What may be correct. Looking in Sienich's books might help. Or Spielaure's fine book.

 

[Tiger 2 Tank]

Oh, thanks.. I added some more question stuff to my last thread as you were posting your response. Thanks

 

[vaughn99]

Hello,


JPS assembled from either Erma or Walther made LSR receivers with CE markings in 1943 for a short time, trials I guess but none were ever built as sniper that I have seen so far as they are all non drilled, non pinned slab side receivers in the c (C), d (D), e (E) and f (F) blocks. the first CE assembled BCD LSR is in the t (T) block in 1944.

later
vaughn

 

[mauser99]

large CE is Erma slant ce Walther ? E/359 anyway. If I can remember correctly they were large CE Erma type. I do recall this coming up and seeing one somewhere ? CE 43 marked thick wall receiver un-finished.

 

[Tiger 2 Tank]

Ok, so LSR's that were early made (late '43) were experimental through '44 f blocked rifles? I think some were actually built into full fledged LSR ce or CE sniper rifles?

After f block '44, what happened next? Is that when Gustloff came into the picture and began building them then Sauer started again with their later guns and it's kind of a mix with bcd e/37 rifles and such.

It's a little confusing but trying to get it down as to what happened.