Third Party Press

Reproduction K98k Sniper Values

ZenMastaT

Member
Hopefully this isn't outside the purview of this subforum. I initially wanted to make a thread asking about a specific rifle for sale on another board but decided I could really use some broader advice on the subject.

A year or so ago I PM'd a number of members on this site about the costs and difficulty associated with putting together a HT reproduction rifle using an Albanian capture I had recently purchased as a base. I had a gunsmith recommended (Vaughn) and some of the reproduction parts necessary were also brought to light. However it turned out the base rifle I wanted to use was a bit of a dog as far as accuracy was concerned so I eventually dropped the project.

Fast forward to now, a little less than a year or so down the line, and I'm thinking it might be a lot less headache to just buy a reproduction rifle off someone else who has done the work or had the work done. That said, from what I've read it seems like gunsmithing work, especially on HT/LT repros, can be very hit or miss. Is the same true with LSR/SSR reproduction guns? How do you guys decide what a fair value for a reproduction put together sniper would be since quality of workmanship and features encompasses such a large variety of possibilities? Basically should I be looking at a ~$1k budget? $2k?

The specific rifle that brought me to these questions is this one:

nY3IoxU.jpg


According to the seller is was originally a 1937 S/147 code Russian Capture. The mount is described as a real type 3 side rail and the scope is purportedly an authentic Zeiss 4x - although I don't know these scopes well enough to know whether that is war-time appropriate or a period commercial, or something else entirely. Close ups of the scope here:

An3G7u7.jpg


hdE20ay.jpg


12Yy5N3.jpg


The seller is asking $1500 for this rifle. I find it very difficult to determine where on the price spectrum that falls due to my unfortunate ignorance. What do you guys think?
 
Unfortunately, the value of a reproduction and the price someone is willing to pay can be mutually exclusive.

As you pointed out,there are a lot of mitigating factors to take into consideraton.

The quality of the parts..:

Mounts...Chinese or Spielauer
Scope Manufacturer...Authentic or Chinese
Base rifle...Correct year/code or a RC mixmaster of any year code..not to mention the condition of the barrel.

The quality of the Smithwork;
Vaughnn or the local guy with a drill press.

I suppose ultimately the gun is really only worth the sum of its parts if push comes to shove .
Parts you can sell,the cost of labor involved to create it is a loss one has to accept if there is no market for it.

Ideally, if a gun has been done correctly and nicely,and someone is seriously looking to have one, purchasing one already done is most lilkely your best tack.
Most likley the seller will be tickled pink to just recoup his expenses so you will get all of the benefits without all the hassle and time involved to make it happen.

As to whether it is any better with the lsr/ssr...maybe, somewhat, as the availablity of High Quality reproduction mounts is somewhat diminished....but all the same factors will still apply.
As for as the weapon you have pictured, the only thing I can attest to is the authenticity of the scope..cant say on the mounts..lousy pics and I am not too learned on those anyway.

I guess ones biggest concern it whether the gun for sale will shoot..?
One persons idea of accurate is not necessairly anothers.
 
The reply above is right-on. I am not on the same $ page for originals, so budget and detail to original are my two criteria.
 
I have a few repros and the information given here is spot on. They will be only worth slightly more than the total cost you put into them. But I can't ever afford or would want to shoot a real one so repros are the way I go. Have fun and get or build a repro and shoot it. As for Vaughn he has always been good to me.
 
I'm also leaning towards a replica sniper and try to learn as much as possible about scopes, mounts and which manufacturer/year combination is legit. From what I've learned so far, the mount on the rifle pictured above is not a Type 3. It could be a Type 2. A Type 3 would have an additional locking screw on top of the mount to keep it from sliding during recoil.
 
Recently Put Together LT

I had this one re-barreled (Lothar Walther). A price range of $1500 to $2000 is not unreasonable - even if all the parts are low-end.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_20131110_131417_814.jpg
    IMG_20131110_131417_814.jpg
    248.5 KB · Views: 87
  • IMG_20131110_131717_116.jpg
    IMG_20131110_131717_116.jpg
    299.7 KB · Views: 59
  • IMG_20131117_145058_156.jpg
    IMG_20131117_145058_156.jpg
    292.2 KB · Views: 60
I had this bnz RC done recently, it was well under $2K all in,including a new barrel. Granted it was an RC mix master,but I could not bring myself to chop up a matching #'s piece, so this is totally incorrect, but cool nonetheless...

BNZ7.jpg
BNZ1.jpg
BNZ2.jpg
 
I like it

I had this bnz RC done recently, it was well under $2K all in,including a new barrel. Granted it was an RC mix master,but I could not bring myself to chop up a matching #'s piece, so this is totally incorrect, but cool nonetheless...

View attachment 64664
View attachment 64665
View attachment 64666

I like the rifle - enjoy it. How does it shoot? What kind of scope are you using?
I would use the locking screws and and fill the pin holes in. It looks a bit incomplete as is.

I would expect $400 for the rifle (current pricing), $500 for the barrel (with labor), $350 for the mount (with labor) and $250 for the scope . Total $1500; and I'm being conservative.
 
[QUOTE=Twien;72634 I would use the locking screws and and fill the pin holes in. It looks a bit incomplete as is.


It looks incomplete because it is only a mock-up..not the finished product.

And I think filling in the locating pin holes would be a big no-no...they help negate a lot of the heavy recoil stress that works against the screws.
 
Thanks very much for the informative replies guys. I suppose I'll just try to have some money at the ready and keep a watch on the boards here and elsewhere to see if any likely candidates come up. Hopefully I can find someone willing to offload a quality built rifle at some point.
 
Expert input needed for repro sniper project

I am considering building a repro sniper. I have a period correct Voigtlander EBRA 6x scope with 26.5mm tube, currently with double claw mounts. Possible K98 candidates are a M/M bcd 43 with a sewage pipe barrel but good, correct replacement barrel or an equally beat up M/M byf 44 that has been polished and sporterized.

I tend to utilize the byf 44 receiver as the bcd still has a slight chance to be turned into a decent rifle again. The byf 44 has been polished to where you can barely read the lettering on top of the receiver but the E/135 is still deep. It also has the "RW" Mauser factory proof on the bottom. Whoever took off the barrel for polishing also left some marks on top of the receiver, messed up the bottom RHS edge and butchered the forward action screw hole. I think this one is too far gone to ever become a collectible again, hence me leaning towards making this one a sniper.

I'm not sure yet what kind of mount would be closest to period and manufacturer/model correct. A type 3 SSR, a turret mount or should I keep the double claw mount scheme? I like any idea that doesn't involve dove tailing the upper receiver ring.

Any suggestions?
 

Attachments

  • bcd-byf.jpg
    bcd-byf.jpg
    140.9 KB · Views: 59
  • byf1.JPG
    byf1.JPG
    167.1 KB · Views: 41
  • byf2.JPG
    byf2.JPG
    286.2 KB · Views: 34
  • byf3.JPG
    byf3.JPG
    147.7 KB · Views: 31
  • bcd1.JPG
    bcd1.JPG
    173.3 KB · Views: 34
  • bcd2.JPG
    bcd2.JPG
    245.2 KB · Views: 35
you couldn't fit that scope on in its current state even if the front receiver ring was dovetailed to take a claw block?

there are plenty of options discussed in past threads - do a search


___________________
I am considering building a repro sniper. I have a period correct Voigtlander EBRA 6x scope with 26.5mm tube, currently with double claw mounts. Possible K98 candidates are a M/M bcd 43 with a sewage pipe barrel but good, correct replacement barrel or an equally beat up M/M byf 44 that has been polished and sporterized.

I tend to utilize the byf 44 receiver as the bcd still has a slight chance to be turned into a decent rifle again. The byf 44 has been polished to where you can barely read the lettering on top of the receiver but the E/135 is still deep. It also has the "RW" Mauser factory proof on the bottom. Whoever took off the barrel for polishing also left some marks on top of the receiver, messed up the bottom RHS edge and butchered the forward action screw hole. I think this one is too far gone to ever become a collectible again, hence me leaning towards making this one a sniper.

I'm not sure yet what kind of mount would be closest to period and manufacturer/model correct. A type 3 SSR, a turret mount or should I keep the double claw mount scheme? I like any idea that doesn't involve dove tailing the upper receiver ring.

Any suggestions?
 
I am considering building a repro sniper. I have a period correct Voigtlander EBRA 6x scope with 26.5mm tube, currently with double claw mounts. Possible K98 candidates are a M/M bcd 43 with a sewage pipe barrel but good, correct replacement barrel or an equally beat up M/M byf 44 that has been polished and sporterized.

I tend to utilize the byf 44 receiver as the bcd still has a slight chance to be turned into a decent rifle again. The byf 44 has been polished to where you can barely read the lettering on top of the receiver but the E/135 is still deep. It also has the "RW" Mauser factory proof on the bottom. Whoever took off the barrel for polishing also left some marks on top of the receiver, messed up the bottom RHS edge and butchered the forward action screw hole. I think this one is too far gone to ever become a collectible again, hence me leaning towards making this one a sniper.

I'm not sure yet what kind of mount would be closest to period and manufacturer/model correct. A type 3 SSR, a turret mount or should I keep the double claw mount scheme? I like any idea that doesn't involve dove tailing the upper receiver ring.

Any suggestions?

Question , Are You sure that Your Ebra is 6X . From the Pic it appears as if it maybe an 8X Ebra Best Regards
 
Question , Are You sure that Your Ebra is 6X . From the Pic it appears as if it maybe an 8X Ebra Best Regards

Hi Dave, happy new year and thank you for chiming in. Yes, this EBRA scope really is a 6x59 with 38mm ocular diameter and 47mm objective diameter. "6x" is stamped into the elevation dial. Other than being an inch shorter, its appearance is similar to a Nickel/Marburg 6x56. I got it at a very decent price, the optics are crystal clear and I'm just trying to figure out how to make a replica K98 sniper that would look similar to a Zielsechs sniper. I think a claw mounted Zielacht or EBRA 8x would have problems clearing the rear sight when being tilted for installation but a 6x scope might just work.
 
you couldn't fit that scope on in its current state even if the front receiver ring was dovetailed to take a claw block?

there are plenty of options discussed in past threads - do a search
___________________

I think anybody here understands the scope won't fit a K98 with its current ocular mounted claw. Eye relief and the distance between receiver ring and bridge would only allow for tube mounted claws. But that wasn't my question. I wanted to know which of the two rifles on hand (bcd 43 and byf 44) would have been more likely equipped with a 6x scope such as Oigee Luxor, Zielsechs or Zieldialyt. I'm leaning towards the byf 44 because I won't be ruining a good receiver by turning it into a replica sniper.

Now if I were to choose the byf 44, what would have been the most likely way of mounting a 6x sniper scope in 1944? I know there's a lot of info out there and all I have to do is search for a couple days but the reason for me asking questions here is to get the experts on the phone instead of trying to weed through a myriad of opinions and still coming to the wrong conclusion. Please point me towards one of the discussions where my questions have already been addressed so I can proceed. Thank you.
 
Hi Dave, happy new year and thank you for chiming in. Yes, this EBRA scope really is a 6x59 with 38mm ocular diameter and 47mm objective diameter. "6x" is stamped into the elevation dial. Other than being an inch shorter, its appearance is similar to a Nickel/Marburg 6x56. I got it at a very decent price, the optics are crystal clear and I'm just trying to figure out how to make a replica K98 sniper that would look similar to a Zielsechs sniper. I think a claw mounted Zielacht or EBRA 8x would have problems clearing the rear sight when being tilted for installation but a 6x scope might just work.

Just thought I would ask , as it appears that it could have been an 8X . The Length in the Pic is deceiving . Best Regards
 

Military Rifle Journal
Back
Top