Rare coded k98's

[Intruder196]

I find it interesting that there is so much "purist hate" for RCs, and yet German-done field refurbishments are such an area of interest (and, seemingly, value):

On a related note, the idea that the Russian preservation varnish should be preserved on RCs makes no sense to me:

There's even more hate for the Romanian Capture K98's. Yet they are mostly matching except the bolt, in original unsanded stocks, have decent bores. But that seems to be outweighed by the import stamp, peened-out proofs, thin bluing and mismatched bolt. Fine by me as it keeps the price down.

The Mosin 91/30 crowd are even more anal when it comes to that Russian varnish on their 91/30 refurbs. Some even go so far as getting an extra stock to take it out to the range in so as not to ruin their "original" varnish.

 

[mrfarb]

It's an age old argument about RC vs non-RC- most of the guys that don't understand are junior collectors or have no desire to collect all matching guns due to price.

I'd disagree with your car analogy. It's more like this in cars as well, for instance:


1970 SS 454 Chevelle with matching numbers in original condition (original paint, engine, interior) is top dollar, say $90,000.
1970 SS 454 Chevelle restored with matching numbers, $50,000
1970 SS 454 Chevelle with mismatched number engine, $30,000
1970 SS 454 Chevelle frame put together from 20 different cars, engine from a 1957 Chevy with a tranny from a 51 Ford, with red house paint applied over car that is 6 different colors underneath ( still looks like a Chevelle SS), about $10,000.

 

[ReiseReise]

It's an age old argument about RC vs non-RC- most of the guys that don't understand are junior collectors or have no desire to collect all matching guns due to price.

I'd disagree with your car analogy. It's more like this in cars as well, for instance:

1970 SS 454 Chevelle with matching numbers in original condition (original paint, engine, interior) is top dollar, say $90,000.
1970 SS 454 Chevelle restored with matching numbers, $50,000
1970 SS 454 Chevelle with mismatched number engine, $30,000
1970 SS 454 Chevelle frame put together from 20 different cars, engine from a 1957 Chevy with a tranny from a 51 Ford, with red house paint applied over car that is 6 different colors underneath ( still looks like a Chevelle SS), about $10,000.

I understand why an all-matching gun is worth more; what I don't get is why a non-all matching is treated quite so lowly, especially given that this hobby seems to contain a lot of people who actually shoot their guns.

Your car analogy is good, although a good, restored SS 454 will not be worth much less than a not-pristine original. But I disagree with the last one, at least in some cases, for RCs: that last one you describe is akin to an RC being assembled with non-K98 parts; while some RCs fall into this, most seem to be made up of legitimate K98 parts.

And again, if numbers-matching is of highest importance, I'm not sure why field repairs with un-numbered or non-matching parts generate the kind of interest they do: it's like having an SS 454 with a service replacement block from the early '70s.

To me, the field repaired guns are cool because they demonstrate there's some real history and use of the gun; that's part of what makes them such great bits of history! But to me RCs are in the same boat.

 

[Loewe]

I was speaking of American collectors, - Canada, AUS, England with their totalitarian gun laws, which the US is trying to emulate under "our" cultural marxist, self-proclaimed "king", have little choice in the matter. Currently, in the US, there are many opportunities to learn about the rifles and buy collectible rifles for the same ranges rc's run at auctions.

Thank you for all your replies. They are all very informative. Unfortunately. Some countries have very limited access to k98's let alone original matching numbered ones. Australian servicemen weren't allowed to "bring back" weapons. So any opportunity to own a piece of history however fractured. You take. I don't think it's laziness it's "take what you can get".

 

[ReiseReise]

I was speaking of American collectors, - Canada, AUS, England with their totalitarian gun laws, which the US is trying to emulate under "our" cultural marxist, self-proclaimed "king", have little choice in the matter. Currently, in the US, there are many opportunities to learn about the rifles and buy collectible rifles for the same ranges rc's run at auctions.

To be fair, K98s are about as "unrestricted" a gun as you can get in Canada, so I don't think it's our gun laws causing the lack of supply; it's just that few got brought back here as "trophies".

My dad remembers my grandfather buying one from a gun store in Toronto back in the '60s for $25 ... Oh, I long for those days LOL!

 

[CanadianAR]

To be fair, K98s are about as "unrestricted" a gun as you can get in Canada, so I don't think it's our gun laws causing the lack of supply; it's just that few got brought back here as "trophies".

My dad remembers my grandfather buying one from a gun store in Toronto back in the '60s for $25 ... Oh, I long for those days LOL!

Our laws prohibited soldiers from bringing them home in the first place.

The difference in your theory between RC and German field repaired is
Like you getting Chevrolet dealer to change a part with an official part, vs ziggys garage changin a part with one from pep boys.

It's an argument you'll never win. Guys who collect German guns want German guns. Not a German gun restored by the russians

 

[Loewe]

Perhaps the dinghy being towed behind the Battleship... Rumanian Kar98k's are far and away superior to the rc, though I wouldn't get carried away "collecting" them... at least they are largely original (unrefinished and matching), though pretty used up. I bought a few when they came in, I guess the late 1990's, but I think they were under $100 at the time. Similar to the Albanian dump of the same period that many collectors took advantage.

As for hate, - big believer in zealotry, when something sucks it is perfectly legitimate to get up on a soapbox and stomp your feet about it... we have a First Amendment, at the moment anyway, and it protects free expression, and as anyone familiar with free speech knows, "popular" speech doesn't need protecting. Even in Hitler's Germany they protected "popular speech", you could goosestep and sieg heil around the nazi flagpole all day long... on this forum (no other forum is half as tolerant), you can have zeal about the rc, or pretty much anything else, but here we also allow "hate-speech" against rc's and no time-out room with coloring books and play-doh, - this is after all not a college campus.

My problem is with the rc goosesteppers (want to see hate and zealotry, check those guys out... collectors far more tolerant and mild than I get piled for the slightest contempt of their prized Stalingrad rifles...) propagandizing the rc as a collectible "German" military rifle; they are like the occupy Wall Street movement, their poverty spiel and populist rhetoric makes me ill, their opportunistic propaganda, propping up their "collections" of refinished shooters is what I am hostile too, - we have humper alerts, and all manner of recriminations for the dishonest sellers, but turn a blind eye towards these jagoffs bamboozling new collectors, Gunboards 98k actually made one of them a moderator who promptly flipped the forum into daycare center for halfwits... these rc elitists have gone from forum to forum over the last two decades and turned them, one by one, into halfway houses for stumblebums.

Mike and Bruce may have created this forum for research, their book project, perhaps to prevent another data dump (loss), but I came here to have free speech and the ability to be a zealot when i want to be (not censored or threatened with suspension), - one of main rules here is no censorship, along with very few rules, all of which revolve around the simplest of manners; here collectors are allowed to "hate" rc's, or "hate" purists (of either stripe, - rc propagandists or collector-researchers, or those with feet in both "ideologies"); but unlike at other forums, there will be no censorship... hell we even tolerate the intolerable, obama voters... most of the time anyway.

....To me, the field repaired guns are cool because they demonstrate there's some real history and use of the gun; that's part of what makes them such great bits of history! But to me RCs are in the same boat.

 

[Loewe]

As I recall, Canada just elected a "socialist" as "king" and the gun laws are changing? While I have no part (interest) in foreign countries politics, Canada's gun laws are pretty strict compared to ours. Even by today's standards... most laws here are by state, especially for rifles like the 98k... in AZ for instance I can go to a gunshop and buy a rifle in about 30 minutes or less, I fill out a brief form and he makes a call to make sure I am not Charlie Manson and i walk with the rifle or pistol. In AZ we also have concealed carry without a licence, - I can carry a pistol in town, in a store, on a sidewalk concealed with no license. In our little town it often looks like 1880's Tombstone, - I can't go to a grocery store and not see half a dozen guys carrying openly, - no telling how many have concealed. We also have zero crime... I can't remember the last crime in our nearest town. Crime is so pathetic here, they actually put it in the local paper, and is almost exclusively speeding and DUI or shoplifting... Or some drunk the cops picked up.

Of course the republican and democrats parties (warmongering kleptocrats all)are trying to destroy states rights and the 10th Amendment, what is left of it anyway, so we may well be on a path to becoming England in a decade or so (but with a lot of buried guns)

To be fair, K98s are about as "unrestricted" a gun as you can get in Canada, so I don't think it's our gun laws causing the lack of supply; it's just that few got brought back here as "trophies".

My dad remembers my grandfather buying one from a gun store in Toronto back in the '60s for $25 ... Oh, I long for those days LOL!

 

[ReiseReise]

As I recall, Canada just elected a "socialist" as "king" and the gun laws are changing? While I have no part (interest) in foreign countries politics, Canada's gun laws are pretty strict compared to ours. Even by today's standards...

Yup, all true, but once you have your licence in Canada, a K98 is an easy purchase (if you can find one!); I doubt any laws will change that will affect wood-stocked, 5-shot, bolt-action repeaters. And, with the RCMP doing its background check before you even get your licence, at least gun shops don't have to worry about going through that process. Walk in, pay your money, and walk out with your new (or old LOL) gun.

 

[CanadianAR]

We did get a swine socialist coward as our king. Makes me sick. He's already back stepping on promises. Like legalizing marijuana, which I care nothing about unless they tax the ever loving hell out of it. Haha

Not sure what he will change with gun laws. Probably chase down some guns for prohibition, handguns will likely be chased, the k98k should be safe but still a sorry state of affairs.

Once you have a license, basically a 5 year back ground check. No restricted guns, you walk in , pick, pay leave.

 

[Loewe]

Better than I expected... kind of like a C&R which works in actual gun shops (I have found in the US, regardless of state, most dealers still want to do the call, even under the three "kings" before osluma.. I can't recall ever getting a dealer to take a C&R for a 98k without a call, needless to say a pistol, even in the 1990's. Of course in the 1980's, even in California, there were no background checks. I use to walk in to gunshops show ID and fill out a form and walk w/ firearm).

They only go back 5-years? Pretty "Liberal" law, - so a bank robber from 1995 could theoretically get a licence? Or is the licence only for 5 years? Probably the latter, as that seem a little too generous for a socialistic state run by megalomaniacs... (like the US, Canada and England)

Once you have a license, basically a 5 year back ground check. No restricted guns, you walk in , pick, pay leave.

 

[ReiseReise]

They only go back 5-years? Pretty "Liberal" law, - so a bank robber from 1995 could theoretically get a licence? Or is the licence only for 5 years? Probably the latter, as that seem a little too generous for a socialistic state run by megalomaniacs... (like the US, Canada and England)

No, I think what he meant was the licence is good for 5 years, then when you renew they check again. When applying for the first time, they check all the way back, as far as I know.

 

[Norto2704]

Didn't think my question would create such a debate. But again it's a learning curve for me. At the end of the day I love the k98. I know that value can be in the eye of the beholder. Although I own an RC I still love it. It's a shame it's not matching and someone rebuilt it. But all the the same it's still a k98. If a nice or interesting k98 comes my way I'll buy it regardless of its background. Because at the end of the day if you weren't there at the beginning of its existence, then most of its history is nothing more conjecture. As far as gun laws go. In Australia. Unless you have a PTA. (Permit to Aquire ). That you you have pre paid and have sitting around ( 3 month life span). It's a good two week two around to purchase you weapon. Regardless of how long you have had your license or how many arms you own. Again I am loving the banter that goes on here

 

[Loewe]

Your question didn't inspire the debate (or argument), this argument has been going on since the rc propagandists began it nearly two decades ago... you might not have seen it because they are as shrill and vitriolic to anyone that "disagrees" with them as any blue blood "elite" college campus. So, most do not dare discuss it, or if they do they are as conciliatory as possible...

It sounds as though your (AUS) gun laws are as draconian as England's, - hell you guys are approaching Japan, where gun laws are confiscatory. No wonder osluma keeps referring to them as a model he wishes to emulate.

Didn't think my question would create such a debate...

 

[ReiseReise]

Your question didn't inspire the debate (or argument), this argument has been going on since the rc propagandists began it nearly two decades ago... you might not have seen it because they are as shrill and vitriolic to anyone that "disagrees" with them as any blue blood "elite" college campus. So, most do not dare discuss it, or if they do they are as conciliatory as possible...

It sounds as though your (AUS) gun laws are as draconian as England's, - hell you guys are approaching Japan, where gun laws are confiscatory. No wonder osluma keeps referring to them as a model he wishes to emulate.

With all due respect, I don't see any argument in this thread; I think we all have a common interest here, and I don't think any one camp is "better" than the other - it's just what interests an individual! I'm sure there are vitriolic, disrespectful individuals on both sides of the fence of this issue: in the world of scale models, there are extremes from people who just slap them together without paint, and like their result, and at the other end there are "JMNs" (Joyless Model Nazis) who count rivets and must have the exact shade of green that the factory used. Both sides still enjoy the hobby!

 

[deadeye18]

Your question didn't inspire the debate (or argument), this argument has been going on since the rc propagandists began it nearly two decades ago... you might not have seen it because they are as shrill and vitriolic to anyone that "disagrees" with them as any blue blood "elite" college campus. So, most do not dare discuss it, or if they do they are as conciliatory as possible...

It sounds as though your (AUS) gun laws are as draconian as England's, - hell you guys are approaching Japan, where gun laws are confiscatory. No wonder osluma keeps referring to them as a model he wishes to emulate.

Draconian is an understatement!to get a firearm here(uk) theres background checks,medical checks,an interview with the police firearm liason officer,home security inspection and that's just the beginning. You have to be in a gun club or have land that's been surveyed (both extremely difficult) and deemed suitable and you have to show good reason for each weapon you possess,in short it's ludicrous!any trouble with the law no matter how small and you lose everything.And you have to go through this every 5 years. must say I very much like the sound of your hometown Loewe,especially the just walking into a gun shop to make an instant purchace sounds brilliant!

 

[deadeye18]

With all due respect, I don't see any argument in this thread; I think we all have a common interest here, and I don't think any one camp is "better" than the other - it's just what interests an individual! I'm sure there are vitriolic, disrespectful individuals on both sides of the fence of this issue: in the world of scale models, there are extremes from people who just slap them together without paint, and like their result, and at the other end there are "JMNs" (Joyless Model Nazis) who count rivets and must have the exact shade of green that the factory used. Both sides still enjoy the hobby!

Well said

 

[nirvana]

The RC debate always puzzles me. it's very polarized, with few people seeming to be in the middle.

 

[Norto2704]

I agree Nirvana. I think it's easy to pick a side or have a leaning for form or another of the K98. But in some countries it's dry on choice of what's out there. I think if see a rifle or anything that you like and you can see the value and get enjoyment from it then it's priceless to you regardless of condition. I think it's healthy to have both sides of the argument. The only issue I have is that there are those out there that make fakes and advertise things they are not and ask for high prices.

 

[ReiseReise]

Draconian is an understatement!to get a firearm here(uk) theres background checks,medical checks,an interview with the police firearm liason officer,home security inspection and that's just the beginning. You have to be in a gun club or have land that's been surveyed (both extremely difficult) and deemed suitable and you have to show good reason for each weapon you possess,in short it's ludicrous!any trouble with the law no matter how small and you lose everything.And you have to go through this every 5 years. must say I very much like the sound of your hometown Loewe,especially the just walking into a gun shop to make an instant purchace sounds brilliant!

Wow, that makes Canada's system look easy-going in comparison! At least with ours, the police do all the work in the background .