Railroad 98k Bayonet

[ersatz]

I can use some information on this bayonet as I lack knowledge about the 84/98 III bayonets. This bayonet too has not seen the light of day for quite some time. I know it is a Railway marked bayonet, however, what does the RBD KS 138 marking on the cross guard mean? The finish on the blade and other metal parts is not blue, but a gray color. The scabbard throat is not like the usual 98k bayonets and the throat spring rattles. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[RyanE]

Reichsbahndirektion Kassel. The 138 is an inventory number.

 

[grimlin13]

The length of that ricasso and that type of scabbard reminds me of a Spanish Standard-Modell bayonet. Would you be opposed to taking the grips off so we can see the tang? I would like to see if it is a one-piece construction or multi-piece construction bayonet.

Edit: I took another look at this bayonet. With the pins holding the cross guard in place it is surely of one piece construction. It just has a longer riccasso than usual as observed on most S84/98 III bayonets. Very interesting bayonet.

 

[AndyB]

Question would be only the width of blade is 24 or 25mm, for me it looks like post 1942 piece made for losted items and serialed to earlier Kassel RBD. On the scabbard could be the mouth piece is missing there. Or it was simplifyed but we dont see the screw and hook on the scabbard here. I dont believe this is a spanish modell.

 

[grimlin13]

In pic 11, you can see the screw is above the hook.

 

[AndyB]

Yes but i dont see the hook dimmension, form and position of screw on the body of scabbard. there is no picture of the front of scabbard. There was a thick mouth on some of the RBD bayonets similar to KS98 scabbard. This is a typical rough finish with weakened blueing.

 

[Slash]

Nice!

 

[ersatz]

Reichsbahndirektion Kassel. The 138 is an inventory number.

Thank you Ryan for the information. I found that Kassel is a city located in central Germany. I appreciate your input.

 

[ersatz]

The length of that ricasso and that type of scabbard reminds me of a Spanish Standard-Modell bayonet. Would you be opposed to taking the grips off so we can see the tang? I would like to see if it is a one-piece construction or multi-piece construction bayonet.

Hi Grimlin13 and thank you for your comments. I will have to pass on removing the grips. Messing with grip screws has always been a no-no on bayonets. I don't mind investigating rifles & handguns.

 

[ersatz]

I've attached some additional photos and hope they help. I compared the throat of my 1940 dated 'O' naval 98k bayonet to the Railroad scabbard. There is a noticeable difference in the finishes, throat collar and scabbard width's. The blade of the Railroad will only sheath in one way, once sheathed the throat spring does not rattle. The blade is without sharpening, although shows traces of machining. Considering the lack of finishing, is the bayonet a late war piece?

 

[pwcosol]

I have never observed a RBD S84/98 (or any "narrow blade" example) as crude as the one pictured. I also note the relatively low issue Nr. Once had RBD KS 32?. It was very nicely machined/blued with wood grips. This begs the question, if RBD KS 138 had been damaged beyond repair in the early 1940s, might the issue number be applied to a later replacement? Also the screw heads are sunk fairly deep into the grip and wood around the hole rims is surprisingly crisp. This example is singular from what I have seen...

 

[AndyB]

Firstly i would measure the width of blade on crossguard, as mentioned its a narrow pattern with 24mm or a normal blade with 25mm.
Secondly as mentioned before this is a war period replacement, personally i would tend to Eickhorn production from mashining of blade. The scabbard from the last picture looks like have only one inner spring, question remains the mouth piece with colar and other part of spring is missing here or was made so, should be probably inspected on real. The screw is really low position over hook, the hook looks unlined, which could be a simplifyed variation of war period.
The real production period is 1942 and later.
I compared the RBD marking and it looks identical to earlier pieces, difference is in size of digits, which are smaller here 138 as on other RBD KS pieces, which means it was done much later as the first delivery from 30ies. RBD modells used a KS98 scabbard type with thick mouthpiece not the S84/98 scabbards as pictured here in comparation. Should be compared with other wartime RBD Kassel piece.

 

[AndyB]

RBD KS 270 bayonet

Greetings, this came in to our shop today. The scabbard was mismatched and the blade was cold blued. I’ve got most of the cold blue off. Blade hasn’t been sharpened. I think this is a “Reichs Bahn Direktion Kassel “ bayonet? Is 270 the weapon or rack number? Thanks in advance!!!

www.k98kforum.com

prewar piece with 270 serial number

 

[ersatz]

Firstly i would measure the width of blade on crossguard, as mentioned its a narrow pattern with 24mm or a normal blade with 25mm.
Secondly as mentioned before this is a war period replacement, personally i would tend to Eickhorn production from mashining of blade. The scabbard from the last picture looks like have only one inner spring, question remains the mouth piece with colar and other part of spring is missing here or was made so, should be probably inspected on real. The screw is really low position over hook, the hook looks unlined, which could be a simplifyed variation of war period.
The real production period is 1942 and later.
I compared the RBD marking and it looks identical to earlier pieces, difference is in size of digits, which are smaller here 138 as on other RBD KS pieces, which means it was done much later as the first delivery from 30ies. RBD modells used a KS98 scabbard type with thick mouthpiece not the S84/98 scabbards as pictured here in comparation. Should be compared with other wartime RBD Kassel piece.

Hi Andy,
I measured the width of the blade at the ricasso and it's 1" or comparable to 25mm I believe. I can only see 1 throat spring when looking down.

 

[AndyB]

25cm width is a normal S84/98. One side spring is non standard probably for german scabbard, other side spring should be too there but was probably pined with missed mouth piece of the scabbard.

 

[bruce98k]

Thats a very strange bird you have there. Andy is correct, it does not have a narrow blade and is tooled way to heavy for 1933-1934 period.
I agree with Andy, its a war time replaced of a damaged, lost or broken bayonet.

Here are 3 pages from the book reprint on the "narrow blade" examples.
Thanks to Lance for supplying many of the new area marks.

 

[Slash]

Really an odd example. The finish and machining is certainly of later vintage then usually seen with these RBD pieces. The grip scales however have the longer and narrower clearing slots as usually encountered on early examples. The scabbard is also an anomaly. The front center screw and thin mouth profile are early traits. The frog hanging hook without lines on the face is another matter. The incised lines were eliminated in 1938 to early 1940 depending on the maker. So another later trait. The frog hanging hook base plate is the earlier type; smaller and more square in shape with straight sides instead of the more standard oval versions seen in later production. You also see this type of base plate occasionally on KS98 Extra-Seitengewehr scabbards. Very interesting piece.

Ted, I understand your reluctance to tamper with the grip screws. That said, can you depress the retention nut/bolt and advise if there are any hidden markings on the "flats" of the lug? Looking for anything to help with possible maker or date.

 

[ersatz]

A special thanks to ALL who have participated in this posting. I've taken in some very interesting details and information. As I mentioned, I am totally in the dark regarding 3rd model 84/98 bayonets.

Well guys your interest and curiosity has prompted me to break open the bayonet to satisfy my curiosity as well. Here are the photos of areas requested. Unfortunately, I did not see any markings on the flash guard. I believe it is numbers matching on the tang and locking lug. I have to admit that I was worried that this piece may have been a turd.

 

[grimlin13]

Thank you for the internal pics, especially since you don`t like to break them open.
Defiantly not a turd. You have a special bayonet IMO.

 

[AndyB]

When looking at the picture RR15, on left side of blade are visible inner spring marking, so there was different scabbard with proper inner both side spring or this scabbard was dissasembled and wrongly mounted? in time, the inner spring is fixed with the mouth screw here?
S84/98 is probably diverted from army production maybe some dimmension problems were there. Yes the locking lug is serialed on left tang 282?.
From the first pictures it looked like the blade was sharpened from middle part, but this could be caused by lights of photografing and with the width of blade, as this is too wide blade for a KS98 type scabbard normally, and goes probably in first 1/3 of blade harder inside?
Any stamps on grips inside?