Questionable M36/M37/M38 para helmets

[Ruffin]

OK. I'll tell. Liner is a complete repro. Aged FJWerke.

 

[Frank F.]

OK. I'll tell. Liner is a complete repro. Aged FJWerke.

Sh*t! How do you do that?

F.

 

[Ruffin]

Sh*t! How do you do that?

F.

Very carefully

 

[M45]

Well done. The shell, paint and decal are original ?

 

[Ruffin]

Well done. The shell, paint and decal are original ?

That's correct, thanks

 

[Frank F.]

Very carefully

Yeah, figured that much.

Does it smell like anything at this stage? Coffee, turpentine, Balistol, Gauloise cigarettes? Is there any way to tell it apart from an original 10 years down the road?

F.

 

[Ruffin]

Yeah, figured that much.

Does it smell like anything at this stage? Coffee, turpentine, Balistol, Gauloise cigarettes? Is there any way to tell it apart from an original 10 years down the road?

F.

Smells a little like leather wax. I did it about 10 years ago. You'd have to take the liner out and examine stitching on the underside to tell it's not 75 years old.

 

[jhv 41]

Rex,

I say this with all due respect as your posts are invaluable for someone like me who has no freakin' clue about the minefield of helmet collecting - you are like the Frank Abagnale of the helmet world!

Thank you for your posts to date and look forward to more as we can all glean knowledge.

Cheers.

JHV

 

[Ruffin]

Rex,

I say this with all due respect as your posts are invaluable for someone like me who has no freakin' clue about the minefield of helmet collecting - you are like the Frank Abagnale of the helmet world!

Thank you for your posts to date and look forward to more as we can all glean knowledge.

Cheers.

JHV

Thanks JHV. I'm glad you're learning from my posts. Hope others are too. If nothing else, they're a wake-up call on what can be done. That should reinforce the fact that knowledge, study, and seeking the opinions of experienced collectors are critical in this hobby. If not everyone agrees about the authenticity of a particular helmet, you have to decide to either go with the consensus or with the opinions of those you respect most. Do that until you've developed enough confidence to stand on your own.

Regards,

Rex

 

[M45]

M38 para

M38 para helmet

An extremely well done copy. Lot#, ET71 stamp and non-scored rim are giveaways.

 

[KSH67]

Is it common to find originals with unpainted slotted bolts?

 

[M45]

Is it common to find originals with unpainted slotted bolts?

Especially the later war M38s with aluminum bolts.

 

[KSH67]

Yes, sorry should have specified, was it common to see unpainted steel vented bolts?
Thanks,
Kevin

Especially the later war M38s with aluminum bolts.

 

[M45]

I wouldn't think that unpainted steel was common. The ones I saw looked unpainted could have had the paint knocked off at some point.

 

[M45]

LUFTWAFFE Fallschirmjager HELMET

Luftwaffe Fallschirmjager helmets with 'camo-finish,'always achieve great sale prices...we sold our first, WW2 Luftwaffe Fallschirmjager helmet in 1976.

www.ulricofengland.com

Luftwaffe Fallschirmjager Helmet | Late Pattern


Raised Rim M38 | Typical 4054 batch number


Luftwaffe Fallschirmjäger raised rim M38 helmet for sale. The helmet finished in the typical later war dark field-blue paint without decals. The helmet with slot & air hole side bolts, and plain slotted back bolts. Interior with full lining present giving a stamped helmet size of '68', and head size of '57'. The liner with manufacturer RB number, 'R.B.Nr.0/0251/0111'. The helmet complete with field blue leather chinstraps with late war buckle assembly. The helmet stamped 'CKL 68' and batch '4054'.

Condition report: The helmet offered for sale in overall very good service used condition. The lining fully-marked and free from damage or alteration. The leather remaining supple. The chinstrap asssembly complete and supple.

Notes: This helmet typical of late issued raised rim helmets, particularly in the '4054' batch. The mixed later slotted bolts with and without centre hole again typical of later assembly. Copies of the relevant pages from the Brian Ice publication on hemet batch numbers included in the sale.


Batch number is correct for a raised rim M38, but I have questions about the lot stamps themselves. They look a bit different than the standard ET/CKL number stamps ( a bit slanted, slightly different font ?).

Also, the spanner bolts seem to have sunken into the shell a bit too far. I think the original bolt design was intended for the bottom portion of the bolt head to be counter sunk under the surface of the shell, but the top portion (top half of the bolt head) was to be above the surface of the shell. Here it appears as if the entire bolt head is below the surface of the shell.

 

[M45]

Late-war M38 German Paratrooper helmet

Late-war M38 German Paratrooper helmet

www.lux-military-antiques.com

A LUX example for comparison.

 

[M45]

Some interesting discussion about one of Ron R.'s M38 para helmets on the WAF fallshirmjaeger forum. (Ken N., Will Z., Terry G.)

The lot number (5075) points to earlier 1940 production, soon after the ET M40 began production at lot# 4800 (March 26, 1940 approx)

The problem/disagreement seem to stem from the apparently later solid steel bolts, found on a lower lot# shell. Solid slotted bolts are claimed by Brian Bell in his book to have first appeared in 1943 (solid bolts - steel and aluminum). He says the vented bolts with slots (in aluminum and steel) first appeared in 1942.

Is Brian Bell's information on the first appearance of slotted bolts accurate ?

If it is accurate, could this M38 of Ron's have been an old stock shell that was not completed until 1943 ?

Being only 1% of all german helmet production (250,000 out of 25 million total) were some of these M38 shells stockpiled at the factory until future orders came in ?

 

[M45]

M37 to M38 conversion. I cannot speak for the camo, but this appears to be an M37 shell as per the lot numbr of 3137 that matches other M37s, but finished with liner holes similar to M38 specs. (No slots in rim, no M35 style liner retaining holes and air vents like standard M37s.) An M37 liner band was reversed and had M38 style brackets riveted on. The holes for the spanner bolts were not yet counter-sunk as standard for M38 holes but simply punched and slightly chamfered or beveled.

When more para helmets were needed (early-mid 1938), the M37 may have been examined and found wanting. The chinstraps were probably distorting the aluminum M37 band, so they came up with the well-known arrangement with the M38 straps mounted directly to the shell. This is a very rare para.

The first M38 appears in about mid 1938
M38 ET66 3820 DD LUFT2PARA SPAN BS PFLG ET/L ALB Y-FOAM 54cm 1ST M38 – MID 1938

 

[M45]

Luftwaffe Stahlhelm M38 für Fallschirmjäger in Tarnlackierung Normandie 1944 - German Air Force 1933-45 - III. Reich: visor hats, steel helmets, overseas caps - Military Antiques

Luftwaffe Stahlhelm M38 für Fallschirmjäger in Tarnlackierung Normandie 1944 letzte Ausführung ab 1944, der Helm außen mit Zimmerit Belag und braun/grün/gelber Tarnlackierung, der ausgesparte Hoheitsadler auf der rechten Seite ist fast

www.weitze.com

​

Luftwaffe Stahlhelm M38 für Fallschirmjäger in Tarnlackierung Normandie 1944​

letzte Ausführung ab 1944, der Helm außen mit Zimmerit Belag und braun/grün/gelber Tarnlackierung, der ausgesparte Hoheitsadler auf der rechten Seite ist fast nicht mehr erkennbar. Innen die Helmglocke mit der dunkelgrüen original Lackierung, hinten im Nacken mit "CKL 71" über 3892" gestempelt, hergestellt bei den Eisen- u. Huettenwerke. Das Innenfutter mit dem Kinnriemen ist nicht mehr erhalten. Der Helm hat deutliche Alters- und Rostspuren, Gesamtzustand 3.

Luftwaffe steel helmet M38 for paratroopers in camouflage Normandy 1944
last version from 1944, the helmet outside with Zimmerit coating and brown/green/yellow camouflage paintwork, the recessed national eagle on the right side is almost no longer recognizable. Inside the helmet bell with the dark green original paintwork, stamped "CKL 71" over 3892" on the back of the neck, manufactured by Eisen- u. Huettenwerke. The inner lining with the chin strap is no longer preserved. The helmet has clear signs of age and rust. overall condition 3.

€ 5.500,00

 

[M45]

Believed to be a fake M38 with raised rim and 4054 stamp. Compare with 4th and 5th para helmets above. Suspicious stamps and counter sinking of bolts is too deep.


Photo #6 authentic raised rim, photo #7 fake raised rim.

The original font of the Thale #4 has its left arm with a slight curve to it. Very difficult for fakers to duplicate exactly. Usually the left arm of the fake #4 will be straight.