Questionable Camos

[M45]

SOLD (dn) Outstanding Luftwaffe Camouflage M35 Helmet - SS-Steel

This helmet is from the long time collection of David M. He was diligent with camos and it shows with this example. The helmet is a Quist 64 M35, with heat lot #4680. The helmet features the typical 1939 slate gray color used by Quest, and a set of lift eagle and National Fields. The overall...

www.ss-steel-inc.com

SOLD (dn) Outstanding Luftwaffe Camouflage M35 Helmet​

SKU: tmlwcm11

This helmet is from the long time collection of David M. He was diligent with camos and it shows with this example. The helmet is a Quist 64 M35, with heat lot #4680. The helmet features the typical 1939 slate gray color used by Quest, and a set of lift eagle and National Fields. The overall condition is extremely service used, with where to the liner, strap, because and finish. The stunning factor of this helmet is the tortoise shell style camouflage scheme, applied by brush likely in the Italy theater. The camo paint shows age, damage from the Sun and dirt, as well as crazing to the thicker parts of the paint; and some flaking of the brush stroke areas. It makes a very stunning appearance due to the darker goldish tan color, and is one of the most outstanding camouflage helmets in terms of condition overall that I have handled recently. This helmet is already vetted by two of the best experts in the field, but remember, I guarantee everything I sell, so you automatically have an inspection period built in. COA on request.

Would this be from the late David "Maui" May collection ?

Notice the base helmet is a well-worn DD Luft. Decals and liner/strap with heavy wear (well beat) = a low $$$ helmet.

Why not take such a low $$$ (~$400) helmet and turn it into an extremely rare and desirable tropical turtle shell (maybe $4000) ?

Notice how the decals are kind of half-a$$ed painted around/over. The original reissues and camos I've seen either had decals painted around or painted over. Either the decals were retained or they weren't.

It's almost as if the forger attempted to blend the original decal wear in with his tan creation. It looks horrible.

 

[M45]

Fine Heer Camouflage M35 Helmet - SS-Steel

This outstanding example is an ET64 M35 in the heat lot range #3974. The helmet shows a lot of the underlying Heer adler peeking through the untouched camo finish. The national shield is not visible-- and due to the helmet having a reissue M40 style liner and strap-- may not be present at all...

www.ss-steel-inc.com

Fine Heer Camouflage M35 Helmet​

SKU: Mhbwhoeh
$3,990.00

This outstanding example is an ET64 M35 in the heat lot range #3974. The helmet shows a lot of the underlying Heer adler peeking through the untouched camo finish. The national shield is not visible– and due to the helmet having a reissue M40 style liner and strap– may not be present at all, which would be correct. The camo paint is a 95% intact, beautiful combination of sand-textured golden tan, grass green and pinkish-hue brick red. The soldier’s inscription in the skirt is H. OEH. The liner is in service used but golden brown, showing some age patina. The strap is complete but shows two repair areas, consisting of a leather bond to re-join the parts. This is tastefully done and does not detract from the overall fine appearance. Overall a stunning addition to the camo collection. COA accompanies.

 

[M45]

ITALIANWARFRONT: GERMAN HELMETS

dis·par·i·ty
/dəˈsperədē/

noun
noun: disparity; plural noun: disparities

1. a great difference.
   "economic disparities betweendifferent regions of the country"
   synonym:
   dis·pro·por·tion
   /ˌdisprəˈpôrSH(ə)n
   
   
   A great example of a questionable reissue showing disparity of wear. The rim photo showing the fine painted texture in pristine condition, but the rim paint is completely worn off. Also, the chipped area shows hard breaks to the paint, not worn off from heavy use as indicated by the liner and rim. The air vent shows paint burned off and even some red rust oxidation. The crown is in excellent condition with just a few areas chipped off to bare metal.
   Real helmets do not wear in this fashion. It would appear that someone has taken a well worn helmet and applied a "reissue" style texured paint, avoiding the rim. Then certain areas were hit with an object to chip some paint off, possibly a rubber hose, something that would remove paint without damaging the helmet underneath.

Some may argue that the texture is too heavy for a depot reissue, what this supposedly is. Depots typically used texure not dissimilar to factory paint, possibly a bit heavier, but this finish seems to have something like woodchips in it, something I've never seen on typical reissues. The garage paint spatter is a nice touch, but only points to where the entire finish was created, IMO (a garage). The rim photo shows paint spatter on the gray textured paint, but none at all on the bare steel (chipped area). This suggests modern creation.

 

[M45]

WWII M40 Q64 German Luftwaffe Rough Texture Overpaint Camo​

WWII German Helmets - Original WW2 Helmets - German War Helmet

100% original WW II German Helmets & Militaria - WWII German Helmets, German Army Helmets, Luftwaffe Helmets, Waffen SS Helmets, German Helmet Camo, WW2

germanwarhelmet.com

Item H674: Exterior displays a rough texture overpaint camo surface. In keeping with the Luftwaffe color the exterior exhibits a schiefergrau (slate gray) hue. No decal can be detected because of the thick, consistent paint which conceals the decal. Super tight fitting liner system 100% original to the helmet. All three untouched split pin rivet fasteners intact and complete with all three slotted washers. Leather liner is undamaged, fully pliable and still has a creamy appearance. Drawstring in full length with original factory knot still in place. Buckle end of chinstrap is steel with approx. 95% of the gray paint remaining. The long portion of the strap has broken off opposite end of the buckle which can be repaired. It is also missing an inch or two from the tip. Overall excellent condition.

Price: $1250

So what is this ? An overpaint (reissue) or a camo ? A camo was modified in the field to match terrain. A reissue (overpaint) was painted in a depot as a refurbishment of factory paint.

Problems with this one: liner band has bends, signifying it was out of the helmet being tossed around (postwar). Texture does not match known reissues. Burned airvent with red rust/oxidation visible. Much of the textured surface is in pristine condition with a few serious bangs and hits here and there in addition to the rim being well beat (disparity of wear).

 

[M45]

PHYSICAL DESCRIPTION: The stamped, sheet steel construction helmet retains a good portion of its hand applied, green and red brown camouflage overpaint. All three liner retaining rivets are intact. The interior of the helmet has a nice M31 leather liner with all eight fingers. Original size adjustment string is present. The interior, reverse, neck guard apron is well marked with the stamped, serial number, "D217", and the manufacturer’s code and size, "NS62", indicating manufacture by Vereinigte Deutsche Nickelwerke, AG. Schwerte, size 62. Nice looking original camo!


GRADE **** PRICE $1,300.00

The Collector's Guild

Are questionable camos coming DOWN in price ? They were typically 3-4K, but this one being a ghosted wire multi-colored is only $1300. Seems like a bargain, so to speak.

 

[Imdone]

PHYSICAL DESCRIPTION: The stamped, sheet steel construction helmet retains a good portion of its hand applied, green and red brown camouflage overpaint. All three liner retaining rivets are intact. The interior of the helmet has a nice M31 leather liner with all eight fingers. Original size adjustment string is present. The interior, reverse, neck guard apron is well marked with the stamped, serial number, "D217", and the manufacturer’s code and size, "NS62", indicating manufacture by Vereinigte Deutsche Nickelwerke, AG. Schwerte, size 62. Nice looking original camo!


GRADE **** PRICE $1,300.00

The Collector's Guild

Are questionable camo coming DOWN in price ? They were typically 3-4K, but this one being a ghosted wire multi-colored is only $1300. Seems like a bargain, so to speak.

That one sat on Guild for awhile but was sold over two years ago when prices were not what they are today, he unfortunately leaves his 'solds' on his site for years after!

 

[M45]

https://www.ratisbons.com/shop/militaria/highlights/luftwaffe-m38-fallschirmjaeger-camo-helmet-et71.html?curr=USD

Luftwaffe M38 Fallschirmjäger camo helmet - ET71

Description
Incredibly rare M38 paratrooper helmet which comes with a period time camo color to its shell and rubber band attached to hold some camo material.
ET71 marked shell with original green factory paint to the inside. Aluminum inner ring with all rubber pads inside. Soft leather lining with clear signs of wear. "Kopfweite 59" size stamped and "Karl Heisler" marker marked. Fine 2nd pattern leather chin straps. Complete. Leather still very flexible. The press button is not working again and can't be opened. The closure clip is fine.
Outside shell covered with at least 85% of the original camo paint. A rare two-color sprayed paint as used in Normandy. Green and tan color including sawdust.
All rivets are absolutely untouched.
a rubber band was period time added by the soldier to put camo material onto the helmet. The rubber band is now very dry and can not be removed. It sticks to the helmet quite strongly. The ends of the band were pinned together.
A fantastic and extremely rare helmet!


PRICE: $ 26,815.00

 

[Hambone]

I’ll put my most recent up for critique. Woodwork small funshow walk-in from a US collector friend:

 

[M45]

That camo looks like it had actually been worn in combat during WWII. Heavy overall wear, especially to the crown area where camo was worn to factory finish and then to dark rust patina.

No fancy exotic patterns or ghosted wire/net, no super-heavy woodchip meda.

Just making a cursory view of the previous 5 camos to this one, and you can see the stark differences. Nice camo! Kind of looks like Italian Olive.

 

[M45]

What you may have failed to grasp is that over 14 million Germans and forced foreign conscripts fought and out of them a good lower end percentage of that total had some artistic merit or were outright artists.......and young of mind!

I need not remind you how adapt the Germans were / are at designing, conceiving and manufacturing high end quality items and movements that fascinated the 20th century and beyond........Bauhaus, Expressionism & Porsche to name just a few.

Remembering too that there was recent astounding art movements throughout Europe prior to the war. That's not even considering those that were one way or another affiliated with or lived within the world of aesthetics / arts. ie architects, furniture designers, cartoonists, commercial artists etc. And all of these people would have fought.
Every clip or actual footage I've seen of the Germans fighting has contained at least one Camouflaged helmet and in a moment of captured time and very few fighters in the said footages that's a great percentage of painted helmets!

Evaluating paint per se is not exact science as paint cures & ages differently, depending on the paint, it's qualities, time & climate of application, whether it was lead based, binder, primed, what it was diluted with and more importantly how is was stored post war......and I won't even begin on natural pigments.

Your cynicism is warranted but as its been shown here you're not even au fait with your own expertise so how would one expect to believe your complete analysis on camouflage techniques, whence our own cynicism is warranted also in your writings!

My point is that you're wrong a great deal of the time and right up there with Goebbels and the propaganda you spill. You can 'talk the talk' but that's all it is.
Stick to ebay examples where we all know the great majority are fakes.
Oh and 'the too good to be true.....' mantra is another fallacy, it happens and a lot but then you couldn't know that!

The word 'cynicism' has negative connotations. I prefer a healthy dose of skepticism when discussing Questionable Camos. Considering the flood of fakes of all kinds inundating the hobby in past decades, skepticism is strongly advised.

Stick to only obvious Ebay fakes for discussion here ? For one, not very exciting. For another, who will seriously scrutinize the tidal wave of Questionable Camos found on other forums and dealer sites ? A cursory read of these other forums (facebook camo forum included) shows there is really not much serious scrutiny, especially if favorite members and friends are the owners of said camos. The result ? Standards of authenticity go out the window. If nearly every questionable camo is now likely "original" (if it looks original, it must BE original) the only camos that are now actually fake are just the obvious ones - like the obvious Ebay fakes.

The 'too good to be true' mantra is not a fallacy. It happens to be a rule of thumb used in militaria collecting (and elsewhere) probably since the beginning. It has no doubt saved multitudes of collectors from wasting hard earned money on junk.

The move to throw out the 'too good to be true' rule of thumb and exchange it for 'if it looks original, it must BE original', is an attempt to mold collector thinking for the purpose of making unscrupulous people very, very wealthy.

un·scru·pu·lous
/ˌənˈskro͞opyələs/

adjective: unscrupulous
having or showing no moral principles; not honest or fair.

What immediately comes to mind is the Sham-pain ruins SS saga, the one where a highly detailed (and completely false) narrative was built up (by numerous people) to support a spray painted fraud - a very dark chapter in this hobby.

 

[Imdone]

The move to throw out the 'too good to be true' rule of thumb and exchange it for 'if it looks original, it must BE original', is an attempt to mold collector thinking for the purpose of making unscrupulous people very, very wealthy.

And what immediately comes to mind is an extreme cynicism that is unwarranted, unsubstantiated and in layman speak general bullshit.

Reminds me of Trump but then he had a point!

 

[Hambone]

The move to throw out the 'too good to be true' rule of thumb and exchange it for 'if it looks original, it must BE original', is an attempt to mold collector thinking for the purpose of making unscrupulous people very, very wealthy.

And what immediately comes to mind is an extreme cynicism that is unwarranted, unsubstantiated and in layman speak general bullshit.

Reminds me of Trump but then he had a point!

The sad fact is that the great majority of German “camo helmets” today are fakes. Over 25 years ago I arrived at the “80 / 20 rule” which I think holds today and is optimistic. Sadly, on heavily controlled and censored forums (we know which those are) there are coyotes mixed in with the sheep which coyotes are protected from exposure by the lack of forum transparency. Perhaps you are accustomed to such venues, thus truth and transparency seem shocking. For us these concepts are normal.

Accordingly, if there are far more fake “camos” than originals (and If you dispute that then you’re lost), why wouldn’t significant cynicism and skepticism be warranted?

 

[M45]

Some years ago I had arrived at the '85 / 15' rule, but have since become more cynical skeptical after seeing boatloads of questionable camos for years and arrived at the '99 / 1' rule (99% fake/ 1% original).

As I had mentioned some time back, one of my first acquaintances in the hobby was an old helmet forger. He acquired boxes full of Norwegian reworks and painted them up in all sorts of configurations, camos included. These I had helped to bring to a gun show and for sale for top collectors prices (as originals) before I fully understood the depth of the deception. By today's standards, his camos and repaints were very obvious poorly done fakes.

That is how many fake camos appeared in the decades since the war up until the later 90s/early 2000s.

Why was this ? The fakers were making most of their money during those years by applying original and fake decals to mostly factory No Decal helmets. This was much easier by comparison than attempting to re-create believable camos.

The 90s was also the time when the related Sham pain ruins SS helmets were being created; the micro-painting of bogus SS insignia on mostly no-decal helmets.

But this dynamic would eventually change, IMO due largely to Lot Number research, which helped to expose not only the Sham pain ruins fraud in particular, but also revealed many fake decals by decal type and location, many applications where they had no business being, such as in the no-decal zones of factory production. The result was that the fakers were largely check-mated in the realm of faking factory decaled helmets.

And like when roaches are shooed out of one room they simply run to another and set up shop, the fakers saw greener pastures in the realm of questionable camos.

Unlike factory helmets that were made to standards collectors have come to understand (certain factory decals used on certain makes/models/lot number ranges) camos have a much wider range of possibility/acceptability due to the creativity and location of troopers in the field.

I believe that is why we have been seeing an explosion of questionable camos (red cross) and many supposed field modified helmets in the past 2 decades or so.

 

[Imdone]

The sad fact is that the great majority of German “camo helmets” today are fakes. Over 25 years ago I arrived at the “80 / 20 rule” which I think holds today and is optimistic. Sadly, on heavily controlled and censored forums (we know which those are) there are coyotes mixed in with the sheep which coyotes are protected from exposure by the lack of forum transparency. Perhaps you are accustomed to such venues, thus truth and transparency seem shocking. For us these concepts are normal.

Accordingly, if there are far more fake “camos” than originals (and If you dispute that then you’re lost), why wouldn’t significant cynicism and skepticism be warranted?

I wouldn't say the majority are fake, I'd say a majority try to be fake but are so obvious they shouldn't even be included in percentages.
It's the ones that even have the experts scratching their heads that are of a concern and yes there are a lot of them but far from the majority.
More concerning are the dealers that continue to push some of what they have as legitimate when I know they know different.

I bought an M1 some time ago that I knew was more or less a fake but it was relatively inexpensive and I liked it for my own reasons. It was the dealer that up until then I had respect for his knowledge and experience that said 'You got that cheap'......I felt like saying but 'it's a fake'.
I knew then why I'd never liked dealers of any kind after collecting all varieties of desirables for 50 years and working within the fine art field for at least half of that.

For me significant cynicism is a nuance that I don't have, I have a healthy level of cynicism / skepticism otherwise it would destroy my love for the more beautiful things in the world.

There is only one in this world that I trust for a true evaluation and one other that is overly cynical and skeptical but they both serve a purpose and are decent people that I will continue to ask their opinions if I can't draw my own conclusions. Equally I have the same in other fields of what I collect.
I'd suggest others do the same.

 

[Hambone]

The decent camo fakes of the last 25 years are run of the mill original $300-500 helmets that have “camo” or wire added. That’s why there are so many fewer of them floating around for sale. The lid painters have pickers finding them. I’ve seen them delivered to shows in paper grocery sacks stacked in boxes, then then get packed in the truck or u-haul to turn up later for sale as camos and wires.

 

[Hambone]

I wouldn't say the majority are fake, I'd say a majority try to be fake but are so obvious they shouldn't even be included in percentages.
It's the ones that even have the experts scratching their heads that are of a concern and yes there are a lot of them but far from the majority.
More concerning are the dealers that continue to push some of what they have as legitimate when I know they know different.

I bought an M1 some time ago that I knew was more or less a fake but it was relatively inexpensive and I liked it for my own reasons. It was the dealer that up until then I had respect for his knowledge and experience that said 'You got that cheap'......I felt like saying but 'it's a fake'.
I knew then why I'd never liked dealers of any kind after collecting all varieties of desirables for 50 years and working within the fine art field for at least half of that.

For me significant cynicism is a nuance that I don't have, I have a healthy level of cynicism / skepticism otherwise it would destroy my love for the more beautiful things in the world.

There is only one in this world that I trust for a true evaluation and one other that is overly cynical and skeptical but they both serve a purpose and are decent people that I will continue to ask their opinions if I can't draw my own conclusions. Equally I have the same in other fields of what I collect.
I'd suggest others do the same.

This sounds very much like WAFlogic we see used to justify large numbers of clearly fake “camo” helmets: the ratio of fakes to originals is trimmed back by removing those which are cruder fakes, such as the various epay offerings from Eastern Europe. Sadly, I’ve seen plenty offerings from WAFworshipped sellers which were not much better in execution, except that they got “wow” “one looker” “exotic freshie” forum chants. It was/is not a matter of WHAT it is but WHO sold it. Once a forum has censored and banned all who don’t sing along then there is the appearance to newcomers that what they are seeing is conventional wisdom, when it is little more than toadyism and lid carnival barking. All just my humble opinions from the last 40 years of hobby involvement.

 

[M45]

I wouldn't say the majority are fake, I'd say a majority try to be fake but are so obvious they shouldn't even be included in percentages.
It's the ones that even have the experts scratching their heads that are of a concern and yes there are a lot of them but far from the majority.
More concerning are the dealers that continue to push some of what they have as legitimate when I know they know different.

I bought an M1 some time ago that I knew was more or less a fake but it was relatively inexpensive and I liked it for my own reasons. It was the dealer that up until then I had respect for his knowledge and experience that said 'You got that cheap'......I felt like saying but 'it's a fake'.
I knew then why I'd never liked dealers of any kind after collecting all varieties of desirables for 50 years and working within the fine art field for at least half of that.

For me significant cynicism is a nuance that I don't have, I have a healthy level of cynicism / skepticism otherwise it would destroy my love for the more beautiful things in the world.

There is only one in this world that I trust for a true evaluation and one other that is overly cynical and skeptical but they both serve a purpose and are decent people that I will continue to ask their opinions if I can't draw my own conclusions. Equally I have the same in other fields of what I collect.
I'd suggest others do the same.

You may have collected all varieties of desirables for the past 50 years, but have you focused on the types of camos that were typically available during the decades prior to the 2000's, like the 70s through the 90s ?

Period photographic evidence of German troops in specific theaters such as North Africa or during the winters of the Eastern Front show large number of helmets camoed for those campaigns; re: a one-color tan/yellow or whitewash/white paint.

Also, certain troops had their helmets spray painted at the unit level (Normandy or Luft field division style) and of course some individual soldiers made their own creations.

Some collectors choose to believe there were loads of camos created during the war, but the garden variety period photos of German troops in action actually show very few camos compared to mostly factory painted/depot reissued helmets. Camos were certainly the minority generally speaking (a very low comparable percentage). And the hobby prior to the 2000s bore this out. The vast majority of helmets available to collectors were factory painted/ depot repainted helmets. Camos were relatively uncommon. And when camos were encounted, they often showed signs of heavy use/combat wear with much of the crown paint worn off. The idea of the "minty camo" was a myth.

Original camos back then were often dull, drab, faded and age toned in addition to the smooth dark rust patina on bare steel with heavy wear. These well-beat, battered camos were not super-popular as they are today. Collectors often gravitated to the much more popular factory decaled helmets in better condition. Decaled factory helmets were probably the preferred souvenir of returning US vets over battered old camos due to so many factory decaled helmets available on the collectors market historically.

When camos started becoming super-popular in the early 2000s, only a limited number of these were available. So what do unscrupulous people do when there is a growing demand for something with a very limited supply ?

They "create" them out of thin air. The most common type of questionable camos I see today are based on well beat, low $$$ factory helmets or reissues with original liner/straps. Being well beat, they are cheap to acquire (condition is
everything in this hobby).

Take a complete, well-beat $300-$400 helmet for instance, apply a textured camo in an exotic pattern, possibly add wire, ghosted wire or ghosted net, paint a research-able name, unit/ fieldpost info in the rim, and VIOLA (there you are) !

you now have a $3000-$4000 exotic freshie/one-looker/dream helmet/masterpiece that will be the envy of many helmet forums.

Dealers of these have been known to say things like, "you name it, this one has it." or "it has that used but not abused look that we all like to see".

 

[M45]

SOLD (ew) Killer Winter Camouflage Heer M35 Helmet​

SKU:
$3,600.00

This ET64 M35 helmet features both an inside and outside tan camouflage, as well as a thick, brush applied white camouflage for winter. In this configuration it tells an incredible story: Southern Front to Eastern – and possibly the Ardennes fronts, given its heavy service wear and array of camo finishes. The liner and strap are untouched original to the helmet and the strap buckle shows a period snipping of one edge, possibly for speed of removal (?) The white finish is paint (not whitewash), has turned a light yellow-ivory color, and shows fine age crazing and cracking. An overall stunning and historic camo piece! COA accompanies.

 

[M45]

M35 ET62 TROPICAL CAMO HELMET​

$2650 SOLD

M35 ET62 TROPICAL CAMO HELMET

$2650

helmetsofwar.com

Exotic camo (or any camo) on top of reissue paint - a big red flag, highly unlikely, IMO.

You have factory painted helmets (the majority of helmets that have survived).

You have reissued helmets, a factory style repaint to recondition helmets, (many have survived).

You have original camos, most of which were painted on top of factory paint.

Not saying a camo on top of a reissue is an impossible combination, just that it is highly unlikely.

Reissued helmets are low $$$ helmets comparatively, and are prime targets for postwar camo schemes, just like well beat helmets and no decal helmets.

 

[M45]

A recently posted camo on WAF. Well liked there universally (not really surprising in itself) but one must wonder how a German helmet forum that has been on line about 20 years could think that such a pristine work of art could actually be authentic. They cannot be called ignorant novices, and by the tone of some of the comments it would seem as if some of the commenters may indeed know that this does not have a chance. But since I have been "banned for life" I cannot post there unless I first die and then crawl back out of the grave.

An exotik multi-colored camo (highly desirable but also becoming one of the most commonly encountered fakes).

Fatalistic condition of this one (crown included) indicates it was never used in actual combat.

No age toning to the paint- bright colors (paint is not from the era)

Supposedly a 3 color Normandy style using official RAL paints but paint colors are not true (an approximation of RAL - very common on forgeries)

RAL paints for 3 color normandies (and 2 color luft field division helmets) are nearly always encountered spray painted on - done at the unit level with the same spray equipment used to paint vehicles. These hand-rendered Normandies should always be seriously scrutinized.