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Polish french berthier

Even not extra good pictures, as no details visible, interesting is polish added there a wrong rifle designation on handle. Any normal photo of the serial number on crossguard?
 
When there is a P prefix, it was serialed to a french M1916 or M1907/15 rifle made in Saint Etienne.
 
And the designation is wrong. Lebel didnt use this type of bayonet, this is a M1886/15.
 
Hello AndyB,

Here is a photo from a book I got from another member here about Polish bayonets (1918-1939).IMG_6492.jpeg
 
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Here are some photos of the one I have. Still has the hooked quillon and has the original blade length of 21"
IMG_6494.jpgIMG_6495.jpgIMG_6496.jpg
 
The last one presented bayonet have corect designation for rifle used with it as the presented hooked bayonet is of M1886 type for rifle Lebel M1886/93 made in Tulle. As mentioned polish wrongly designated the first pictured bayonet, as this is not for Lebel rifle, but instead for Berthier rifle.
In the presented book is wrong rifle designation too, this bayonet M1886/15 was not used with Lebel rifle but with M07/15 and M16 Berthiers.
 
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The interwar Polish use of foreign arms is almost worthy of it's own forum, and some day might just be ;) (he said, suggestively...)

I have a friend who is a particularly vigorous and knowledgeable collector of pre-1939 Polish built or used rifles and carbines, and the range is more sweeping than might be expected.
 
There is nothing strange, its most real some of the polish armorers didnt known how was exactly used the various modells of french bayonets on french rifles, so missunderstanding were brought and the mayor pcs are wrongly designated with Wz.86/93 of which is in reality a upgraded Lebel rifle (improved bolt head), in french sources never existed similar designation of bayonet as the long tang blade modell started already 1890 instead of 1893. To contrary to Lebel rifles, where existed exactly the M1886/93 designation stamped on receiver left side.
www.gunsinternational.com

Lebel M1886/93 8mm Lebel (R24650)

Lebel M1886/93 8mm Lebel (R24650) for sale online.
www.gunsinternational.com www.gunsinternational.com
But from old polish site that provided info existed corectly stamped bayonets for Berthier rifles, with Wz.16 stamp or with Wz.07/15 stamp. Picture provided by Tom.Pietrzak.
There exist wrongly designated german S98/05 bayonet which have Wz.88 stamped on pommel, even this type of bayonet could be not attached on Gew.88 rifle, only on Gew.98

Wz0715_fr_0715.jpg
 
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Hi.
Official markings according to the instructions of June 20, 1929. Markings used in the Polish Army to mark bayonets of French origin.
Markings of rifles in Polish terminology; kb- Rifle, kbk- Carabiner
French rifle; kb wz.86/93, kb wz.07/15, kb wz.07/15-16, marking on the bayonet "bg.frs.wz. 86/93"
French carbiner kbk, marking on the bayonet "bg.frs.wz.92.
French rifle kb wz.74 ( Grass) marking of the bayonet " bg.frs.wz.74
Despite issuing detailed regulations, gunsmiths used abbreviations e.g. wz.86/93, wz.92, wz.88
 
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Thanks for adding details about manual, anyway presented picture speaks other language, evidently the armorers didnt follow exactly the designation in manuals.
Pruszynski Maciej wrote abot following designations:
Oznaczenia na głowicy rękojeści (obydwie strony):
WZ .86/93 rękojeść mosiężna , jelec bez wąsa
WZ.16 rękojeść stalowa, jelec bez wąsa
BG.FC.86.93 rękojeść mosiężna, jelec bez wąsa
Oznaczenia na rękojeści umieszczone wzdłuż grzbietu:
Fc.wz . 86/ 93 rękojeść mosiężna, jelec bez wąsa
bg .Fs.wz.86/93 rękojeść mosię;tna, j elec bez wą sa
BG.wz.86/93 rękojeść mosiężna, jelec bez wąsa
Oznaczenia w prowadnicy, na grzbiecie rękojeści:
BG FS wz .86-93 rękojeść niklowa , jelec z wąsem.
 
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The designation "wz.07/15" from before 1929, bayonets with a full regulation designation are very rare, it was common practice to use abbreviations.
Mark on the bayonet user Fulton bulldog, is correct
 
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