Period Pic - Gew 98 fitted with a telescopic sight
- Thread starter jhv 41
- Start date
Great Photo !!!! . Not up on my WWI , is that a Fuess Scope ? Best Regards 
jhv 41
Well-known member
Great Photo !!!! . Not up on my WWI , is that a Fuess Scope ? Best Regards
Maybe another forum expert can confirm. I wish the image quality was better to view the scope.
I do see a bolt cutout present. I think that has been a source of some conjecture on period original scoped Gew 98's.
jhv 41
Well-known member
Does anyone know for sure if genuine original gew 98 sniper models had a large bolt cutout in the stock?
I ask as the NRA museum has one that shows only a partial, very small cutout and the period pic I posted to start this thread shows what appears to be a much deeper bolt area cutout in the stock.
Any responses are appreciated.
http://www.nramuseum.org/the-museum...s/mauser-gew-98-bolt-action-sniper-rifle.aspx
I ask as the NRA museum has one that shows only a partial, very small cutout and the period pic I posted to start this thread shows what appears to be a much deeper bolt area cutout in the stock.
Any responses are appreciated.
http://www.nramuseum.org/the-museum...s/mauser-gew-98-bolt-action-sniper-rifle.aspx
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vintagescope
Senior Member
Absolut , this is not a Reichwehr scope mount but a civil mount post WW1 .
The sniper rifle from NRA museum is of course a "recreation "…..
The sniper rifle from NRA museum is of course a "recreation "…..
jhv 41
Well-known member
Thanks, at least that takes that rifle out of the equation.
Hello,
Not all German WWI sniper rifles had the bolt cutout. Especially some of the early war rifles did not. Some variations did not even have a turned down bolt.
Some of the early Bavarian sniper rifles had no cutout, but the turned down bolt had a flattened knob. (like K98a)
The shown NRA rifle very well might be a Reichswehr "sniper" rifle. Not a true sniper rifle, but one of the training rifles.
For explanation: Each Reichswehr sniper had two sets of scoped rifles. One for shooting training and military missions/war. The other one for training/drill.
Only the true sniper rifles had the Zeiss Zielvier scope attached. The training rifles had other scopes.
According to Reichswehr regulations only members of the "sniper" shooting class were allowed to shoot the sniper rifles (with or without scope)!!
I can not make out any cutout on the stock of that NRA rifle. (maybe I do need new glasses!)
Thanks
Wolfgang
Not all German WWI sniper rifles had the bolt cutout. Especially some of the early war rifles did not. Some variations did not even have a turned down bolt.
Some of the early Bavarian sniper rifles had no cutout, but the turned down bolt had a flattened knob. (like K98a)
The shown NRA rifle very well might be a Reichswehr "sniper" rifle. Not a true sniper rifle, but one of the training rifles.
For explanation: Each Reichswehr sniper had two sets of scoped rifles. One for shooting training and military missions/war. The other one for training/drill.
Only the true sniper rifles had the Zeiss Zielvier scope attached. The training rifles had other scopes.
According to Reichswehr regulations only members of the "sniper" shooting class were allowed to shoot the sniper rifles (with or without scope)!!
I can not make out any cutout on the stock of that NRA rifle. (maybe I do need new glasses!)
Thanks
Wolfgang
Very little, or better, next to nothing is known about the so called Reichswehr mount.
Developed by Gerard in late WWI, the first mounts had square/flat rings. (like the 1927 Zielvier)
The bottom side of the front ring was flat too. The bulg was a later introduced improvement.
It is assumed that the round rings (like on the NRA scope) are commercial. But, during that time, the German government only had a very small budget for the Reichswehr. They sure did not spend big money on a "sniper" rifle that was only used for crawling through the mud, obstacle course, ....... and not for shooting. That would also explain the rifle# on some of the scopes with "commercial" rings. In 1932 the training rifles still had the old pattern iron sight.
In 1923 the first few Zielvier scopes with Gerard mounts were optained for the astronomic sum of 1.203.280.512 Marks. (at the same time, DWM offered the 7.65 mm Luger for 1.475.000 Marks. Only 4 (four!) days later the very same pistol was offered for 2.880.000 Marks)
For the 1925 trials another 50 Zielvier scopes were mounted for 2.430 Reichsmark ~ $US 6.100 (today). (only for the work, no parts)
Attached photos show Gerard M4x scope with first pattern rings.
Developed by Gerard in late WWI, the first mounts had square/flat rings. (like the 1927 Zielvier)
The bottom side of the front ring was flat too. The bulg was a later introduced improvement.
It is assumed that the round rings (like on the NRA scope) are commercial. But, during that time, the German government only had a very small budget for the Reichswehr. They sure did not spend big money on a "sniper" rifle that was only used for crawling through the mud, obstacle course, ....... and not for shooting. That would also explain the rifle# on some of the scopes with "commercial" rings. In 1932 the training rifles still had the old pattern iron sight.
In 1923 the first few Zielvier scopes with Gerard mounts were optained for the astronomic sum of 1.203.280.512 Marks. (at the same time, DWM offered the 7.65 mm Luger for 1.475.000 Marks. Only 4 (four!) days later the very same pistol was offered for 2.880.000 Marks)
For the 1925 trials another 50 Zielvier scopes were mounted for 2.430 Reichsmark ~ $US 6.100 (today). (only for the work, no parts)
Attached photos show Gerard M4x scope with first pattern rings.
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Wolf , Great info Thank You for elaborating , also wanted to commend You on one heck of Scope & Rings and Matching Case with accouterments . EXCELLENT Cond. Best Regards .
PS Now Were is the Matching Rifle ? LOL!!!!!!!!!
PS Now Were is the Matching Rifle ? LOL!!!!!!!!!
Thanks!
Some more information on Reichswehr snipers:
Each infantry company (with exception of company numbers 4, 8, 12 and 13) received 3 K98b with Zielvier scope as "true" sniper rifle. They were designated as "Kriegsgarnitur" (war set). For training/drill they had 6 "Übungsgarnituren".
!!Be wary, when you come across a unit marked Zielvier with one of those company numbers engraved that did not have any sniper rifles!! ;-)
In late 1925 Zeiss repaired (and modified??) some of the scopes for the training rifles. It seems that at that point the improved rings and bases were attached. "The fitting will be completed till April 1926." (No need to fit a scope to a rifle when nothing has changed!)
In January 1928 the Reichswehr sold 6 K98b with Zielvier scopes to the Lehr- und Reparaturwerkstätten in Karlsruhe. Another 6 rifles were sold to the city of Bremen, and the Police ordered an unknown number of sniper rifles. All these rifles were withdrawn from their spares.
In September 1928 it was announced that the arming of the forces with the new sniper rifle is completed.
When the Reichswehr introduced the iron sight for s.S. ammo, the chief of staff suggested that the sniper rifles should be converted too. The sniper then could use the open sight with s.S. ammo, and the scope with S ammo.
They either did not have the money to change the dial on the scope for using the s.S. ammo, or the chief of staff was nothing but a complete idiot!
Some more information on Reichswehr snipers:
Each infantry company (with exception of company numbers 4, 8, 12 and 13) received 3 K98b with Zielvier scope as "true" sniper rifle. They were designated as "Kriegsgarnitur" (war set). For training/drill they had 6 "Übungsgarnituren".
!!Be wary, when you come across a unit marked Zielvier with one of those company numbers engraved that did not have any sniper rifles!! ;-)
In late 1925 Zeiss repaired (and modified??) some of the scopes for the training rifles. It seems that at that point the improved rings and bases were attached. "The fitting will be completed till April 1926." (No need to fit a scope to a rifle when nothing has changed!)
In January 1928 the Reichswehr sold 6 K98b with Zielvier scopes to the Lehr- und Reparaturwerkstätten in Karlsruhe. Another 6 rifles were sold to the city of Bremen, and the Police ordered an unknown number of sniper rifles. All these rifles were withdrawn from their spares.
In September 1928 it was announced that the arming of the forces with the new sniper rifle is completed.
When the Reichswehr introduced the iron sight for s.S. ammo, the chief of staff suggested that the sniper rifles should be converted too. The sniper then could use the open sight with s.S. ammo, and the scope with S ammo.
They either did not have the money to change the dial on the scope for using the s.S. ammo, or the chief of staff was nothing but a complete idiot!
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Since new documents showed up, I have to post a correction.
The Reichswehr mount was developed at Gewehrfabrik Danzig. The patent was granted to Staatsgewehrfabrik Danzig in February 1919. After Danzig was closed down, the Patent was sold to Gerard.
Interestingly the patent drawings show a Gerard scope.
Attached photo shows an early (probably from the 1925 trials) Zeiss Zielvier with Reichswehr mount on the left. I think that gun can be considered as an early "Kriegsgarnitur". Please note the rifle's rear sight, being post WWI.
The soldier on the right holds a typical WWI sniper rifle with Voigtlaender scope. A rifle of the Uebungsgarnitur still with the WWI rear sight.
Thanks
Wolfgang
The soldier on the right holds a typical WWI sniper rifle with Voigtlaender scope. A rifle of the Uebungsgarnitur still with the WWI rear sight.
Thanks
Wolfgang
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Thats a GREAT photo Wolfgang , nothing like PERIOD Photos for proving or disproving some of the myths associated with collectors and or personal inaccurate/flawed info . Thanks for sharing this .
Thanks Dave,
with the photos from my collection and some documents from our federal archive I now have a rough idea what was going on with sniper rifles in the interwar period. But since most documents got lost at the end of WWII and only a few period photos are known it is very daring to make a call about the originality of a Reichswehr sniper rifle. IMHO
Attached another interesting photo. The sniper rifles are K98b with Zielvier scopes whereas the other rifles are regular G98 rifles.
Thanks
Wolfgang
with the photos from my collection and some documents from our federal archive I now have a rough idea what was going on with sniper rifles in the interwar period. But since most documents got lost at the end of WWII and only a few period photos are known it is very daring to make a call about the originality of a Reichswehr sniper rifle. IMHO
Attached another interesting photo. The sniper rifles are K98b with Zielvier scopes whereas the other rifles are regular G98 rifles.
Thanks
Wolfgang
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