Newbie- I want to learn about this 44 Model 98

T

Tiercel

Member
I want to learn about this rifle to pass it down in the family with the rifle. This is what I know. I was told my grandfather’s brother sent this home from WWII. I was told he was in “The Battle of the Bulge”. I know he came back with PTSD/Shell shocked and soon developed MS or MD.

Butt plate does not look original to my untrained eye. It looks like it might be designed for a front site shroud that is missing.

I can find no markings on the trigger guard or floor plate.

The stock was sports cut and heavily refinished. It was my grandfather’s main hunting rifle. Either it never had a bolt handle cut out or it was sanded away (seems unlikely). There are no keel or grip markings on the stock. The sling buckle cutaway is sanded shallow. The breakdown washer hole was filled. The interior of the stock arm ha S/N 6085 matching the (3) S/Ns on the rifle.

The photos show S/N 6085 on the barrel/receiver, bolt handle, safety, rear site, and stock. All indicated in red. All other markings indicated in blue.

Thank you so much for any info.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_4071.jpeg
    IMG_4071.jpeg
    216.8 KB · Views: 83
  • IMG_4070.jpeg
    IMG_4070.jpeg
    351.7 KB · Views: 84
  • IMG_4069.jpeg
    IMG_4069.jpeg
    378.7 KB · Views: 85
  • IMG_4067.jpeg
    IMG_4067.jpeg
    357.1 KB · Views: 82
  • IMG_4066.jpeg
    IMG_4066.jpeg
    295 KB · Views: 81
My first two full-length photos did not post. I also missed pointing to the s/n on the bolt. I am not sure why I am having issues with those two photos.
 
Nice heirloom to pass along. Bnz 44 were mostly made at steyr plant . Steyr still makes weapons in Austria today. Looks like the suffix letter and eagle waffent are not present on the barrel next to the serial number , so ss contract is possible. Several returning gi made there rifles there own and used them for hunting. If pictures file is to large it may not post,downsize first.
 
Last edited:
For what it is worth I will try to post the full length photos. I included a photo of my great uncle who brought it back. I am going to investigate his service recordm what unit he was in and what campaigns he fought in if possible.
 

Attachments

  • Model k98 left.jpg
    Model k98 left.jpg
    453.8 KB · Views: 41
  • Model k98 right.jpg
    Model k98 right.jpg
    455.1 KB · Views: 41
  • Cameron.jpg
    Cameron.jpg
    336.7 KB · Views: 42
This has never been out of our family from the moment My Grandfather received it from his younger brother Cameron in the mail (as I understand it.

I would like to understand what each of these mean:
1. DZ
2. BNZ
3. The shield with a "1" under the BNZ
4. There is some symbol next to the shield that I cannot make out.

Thanks
 
1) DZ, is a lot code for the barrel
2 ) bnz, is a “secret” code for the mfg of the rifle = Steyr in Austria

3) bnz/1 in a shield is just a logo of who made the barrel = Steyr
4) it’s an inspection stamp = Waa 623, placed by the inspection “team” at Steyr
 
Bob, Thank you so much.

1. I suppose in the end stages of war they had more to do than track what units S/Ns were shipped to so would you say this is the about the full extent of available information?

2. Is the attached photo a replacement butt plate?

3. There is what I would call some rust and light pitting on exterior metal. I am inclined to take fine brass wool to the metal. Is it advisable to do that and work on shining the bold up or just leave functional as is? (The crown seems good and the rifling looks pristine, no pits. Prominent groves the entire barrel length).

4. I am not really interested in selling this but I wonder if it has any value in this condition other than a hunting gun and sentimental value since the stock has been chopped.
 

Attachments

  • buttPlate.jpg
    buttPlate.jpg
    234.7 KB · Views: 13
Tiercel said:
Bob, Thank you so much.

1. I suppose in the end stages of war they had more to do than track what units S/Ns were shipped to so would you say this is the about the full extent of available information?

2. Is the attached photo a replacement butt plate?

3. There is what I would call some rust and light pitting on exterior metal. I am inclined to take fine brass wool to the metal. Is it advisable to do that and work on shining the bold up or just leave functional as is? (The crown seems good and the rifling looks pristine, no pits. Prominent groves the entire barrel length).

4. I am not really interested in selling this but I wonder if it has any value in this condition other than a hunting gun and sentimental value since the stock has been chopped.
Click to expand...

Your barreled action looks complete, as in if one wanted to, it would be a lot easier to restore back to military configuration. However, being that it's a family heirloom, and was sporterized longer than it wasn't at this point, I'd say leave it as-is. My great grandfather brought back 3 rifles; a K98k which was sporterized, a Carcano moschetto carbine (which is missing lol), and a German 22 trainer (or KKW), which I still have in 99% original config. The K98k that I'm referring to is not worth restoring at all, since its been blued, drilled/tapped, etc. However, yours could be brought back with some parts. Although my recommendation is to leave it be, and enjoy it as a shooter / hunting rifle of your own!

The butt plate is almost definitely a replacement, or even came off of a different sporting rifle.

The rust you have on your rifle can be cleaned with a brass (but I prefer copper) brush with a few drops of oil on the rust before you begin scrubbing (don't scrub too hard!).

Its still an awesome rifle and although not super valuable as it sits today, it must be incredibly valuable to you and your family!

Hope this helps!
 
The buttplate isn't original, it's a sporting replacement. The stock is basically shot at this point, it's been heavily sporterized and altered/refinished. The barreled receiver itself holds a little more value than a standard 98k barreled receiver since it looks to be an SS contract.

For your other questions, serial numbers were not tracked. There's no way to know where the rifle was without provenance. The rifle itself will tell you its story, based off the markings. I would not do ANY scrubbing to the metal, aggresive cleaning can damage bluing. Active rust Spots can be treated lightly with some oil and brass wool. Other than that, leave it.
 
Tiercel said:
This has never been out of our family from the moment My Grandfather received it from his younger brother Cameron in the mail (as I understand it.

I would like to understand what each of these mean:
1. DZ
2. BNZ
3. The shield with a "1" under the BNZ
4. There is some symbol next to the shield that I cannot make out.

Thanks
Click to expand...
This was well answered by BiO, however you might find this of interest. From the SS serial study Mike put together. https://www.k98kforum.com/threads/ss-contract-and-single-rune-serial-study.308/

You can see by your steel lot code DZ how close to the end this falls.
SS serial study.jpg
 
Zeppelin5000 said:
The barreled receiver itself holds a little more value than a standard 98k barreled receiver since it looks to be an SS contract.

I would not do ANY scrubbing to the metal, aggressive cleaning can damage bluing. Active rust Spots can be treated lightly with some oil and brass wool. Other than that, leave it.
Click to expand...
I take it that it looks like an SS contract rifle because to quote BB308 "the eagle waffent are not present on the barrel next to the serial number".

Also Zeppelin, based on your comment, I take it that an SS contract 98 is a little more desirable than some other WWII K98's???

If a K98 is not a SS contract rifle, what is the alternative. The SS did not manufacture their own k98s did they? Excuse the stupid questions but I am starting from a dead standstill.

Finally, I am no expert on guns. I own a few, I am retired law enforcement, have cold blued a couple, etc but if I were to guess, I would guess this gun was not blued. Maybe all the finish is off but I think that would be unlikely on the area protected by the stock. It seems to be neither black or very dark blue but more of a brown/black.

The barrel is also ribbed (not sure of the term) rather than smooth metal exterior. Ot is most heavily ribbed in the section above the rear site. I am not sure if all k98s are like that or not. I soaked it in "BreakFree CLP" for 12 hours and scrubbed it with a stiff nylon brush and was surprised and how much it improved the looks. My brother had this gun for a couple decades but gave it to me since he has no one to pass it on to. I have only had it a few days.
 
Last edited:
Tiercel said:
I take it that it looks like an SS contract rifle because to quote BB308 "the eagle waffent are not present on the barrel next to the serial number".

Also Zeppelin, based on your comment, I take it that an SS contract 98 is a little more desirable than some other WWII K98's???

If a K98 is not a SS contract rifle, what is the alternative. The SS did not manufacture their own k98s did they? Excuse the stupid questions but I am starting from a dead standstill.

Finally, I am no expert on guns. I own a few, I am retired law enforcement, have cold blued a couple, etc but if I were to guess, I would guess this gun was not blued. Maybe all the finish is off but I think that would be unlikely on the area protected by the stock. It seems to be neither black or very dark blue but more of a brown/black.

The barrel is also ribbed (not sure of the term) rather than smooth metal exterior. Ot is most heavily ribbed in the section above the rear site. I am not sure if all k98s are like that or not. I soaked it in "BreakFree CLP" for 12 hours and scrubbed it with a stiff nylon brush and was surprised and how much it improved the looks. My brother had this gun for a couple decades but gave it to me since he has no one to pass it on to. I have only had it a few days.
Click to expand...

The SS had a contract with Steyr in 1943-1944 to manufacture rifles for them. Those rifles will lack a letter suffix after the serial number and will lack a military acceptance proof on top of the receiver. Often times they will have a single rune (lightening bolt) on top of the reciever as well. Just like anything SS, they are more desirable and valuable. If a rifle is not a contract, it's simply a standard production K98k for the Wehrmacht, most went to the Heer, other went to the Luftwaffe and the Kriegsmarine. The SS also used conversion rifles which were older Gewehr 98's converted to K98k's. They were converted at depots, but that's another story.

The finish you're seeing is simply patina and the roughness or ribbing as you called it is just machining marks. As the war went on, the Germans concentrated less on buffing/fine machining and making the metal look "pretty".
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top