Third Party Press

Newbee With BNZ 42. Does this gun look legit?

dkay62

dkay62

Member
Hi Guys,
My name is Doug and I live in Ohio. I bought this 98K this weekend at a show. I am usually on the Colt forum and I must admit I am a newbee when it comes to the 98K. I have always wanted a nice representative WWII example and I was taken with the condition of this one. When I got it home, I realized that Mausers are often faked. I have not removed the stock but have not been able to find any stock markings. Maybe they were sanded off? Is it normal to not have stock cartouches? Anyway, here are some pictures. Please tell me the good, the bad and the ugly. Any comments are welcome. I can certainly provide more pictures if requested. Thank You. - Doug.

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While it is true fraud is rampant in 98k collecting, it isn't something to take too seriously, as the vast majority is poor quality work, at least on the lower end rifles, - naturally, with more valuable rifles or variations, the work can be quite difficult to identify as the opportunity to make a large profit "matching up" a rare rifle brings out those that have "pride" in their work, and who study the rifles and marking patterns and are getting quite good at replicating them..

This rifles stock should not be externally marked, unless it is a Walther or Brno (dot) stock, which occur in this range. They should be serialed internally though, with the receivers serial. If it were a Walther stock it will have e/359 along the bottom. "dot" stocks and some Menzel (c-stocks) are known in this range also, they will have the typical markings associated with them, along the bottom also.

I would be curious to know if you see any markings along the bottom of the stock, even faint ones. Also how is the buttplate marked, I am curious if it is a sub-contract buttplate, it shouldn't be serialed in this range, but some sub-contract buttplates show up intermittently. I would also like to see the full barrel code, it starts with "208 - 40" and then wraps around the barrel out of sight. I would hazard a guess that its a Böhler, but it might be a RD, but as it is a 1940 barrel, it is impossible to say with accuracy (Böhler and RD from 1940 are known in this range rifles, with lots close to this one, Böhler especially)

Anyway, I would like to see more pictures of the rifle, the underside of the bolt handle stem (acceptance pattern, opposite of the serial on the bolt), also the right receiver, probably just e/77 there, and also the siderail, should be Mod.98, but i like to be sure. Anything along these lines are of interest, and in return I should be able to answer any of your questions on the rifle.

BTW, I should revise to say that "typically" there are no external markings on a SDP/42 made stock, but on rifles not too used and abused you can find e/623 at the wrist, though this is far from common, as most were worn away as this is a contact-wear point and often these small markings are worn away. It is worthwhile looking at the wrist in all cases, - just from the pictures, I would guess this is a SDP stock, the bolt cutout looks minimal, round, which is typical for SDP anyway.

dkay62 said:
... When I got it home, I realized that Mausers are often faked. I have not removed the stock but have not been able to find any stock markings. Maybe they were sanded off? Is it normal to not have stock cartouches?
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try taking some pics without a flash in diffused light, like on a partly cloudy day when the sun goes behind a cloud.
 
Bolt is fine, imo, though the acceptance would settle it with certainty.
 
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I decided to take the stock off and try to take some better pictures. I want to thank you for all your opinions. This is my first German Mauser. I had a Yugo M48 years ago but it was rough.

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Loewe said:
Bolt is fine, imo, though the acceptance would settle it with certainty.
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I hope you can see the marks you are looking for. I still have the rifle apart and can take more photos if needed.
There appears to be an "8" under the trigger guard. Not sure if that helps identify the stock maker.
The bolt and mechanical parts appear newish. Almost unfired. Not sure what to think about all this. Sort of makes me skeptical.
One other thing. There is no serial or markings on the magazine follower. I know I have seen numbers on other Mausers before.
 
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The bolt and stock are good, what you show fits with other rifles in this range, thanks for the pictures!

Followers are "usually" e/77 and serialed last two digits early on in 1942, serials seem to drop at some point, too few recorded to know when, - most do not take very many pictures, those that do rarely take pictures of parts without markings, and bnz/42 is not too easy to find matching.
 
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Loewe said:
The bolt and stock are good, what you show fits with other rifles in this range, thanks for the pictures!

Followers are "usually" e/77 and serialed last two digits early on in 1942, serials seem to drop at some point, too few recorded to know when, - most do not take very many pictures, those that do rarely take pictures of parts without markings, and bnz/42 is not too easy to find matching.
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After looking at the pic reference, the font does look good I was having a hard time seeing the dip below the d at the bolt base. It looks too flat to me but could be flat lighting due to the cameras flash.
 
mauser202 said:
After looking at the pic reference, the font does look good I was having a hard time seeing the dip below the d at the bolt base. It looks too flat to me but could be flat lighting due to the cameras flash.
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Hi Mauser202! Here is a shot of the top of the bolt without flash. Previous owner painted the stampings so it is a little hard to see.

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Thanks for looking at this.

Loewe said:
The bolt and stock are good, what you show fits with other rifles in this range, thanks for the pictures!

Followers are "usually" e/77 and serialed last two digits early on in 1942, serials seem to drop at some point, too few recorded to know when, - most do not take very many pictures, those that do rarely take pictures of parts without markings, and bnz/42 is not too easy to find matching.
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Thanks Loewe. Why can't you do "LIKE" on the Mauser Forum?
Do you know if SDP assembled these in Austria or Poland? I know there is some Radom parts on this rifle.
 
I still have an issue with the quality of the blue. I know earlier SDP rifles have much better finish then later rifles but some parts on this that you would expect to see some wear like the front bands have none that I can see in the pics. The bolt also looks new. Without holding it it is hard to tell but I still am suspicious.

Plus with the stock being refinished would indicate to me this was not a mint rifle.
 
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Yes, the rifle was assembled in Steyr in this period, at the main factory east of the Enns. By this time, most of the metal will be SDP-Radom made (waffenamt e/77), though you can still find the stray components SDP-Steyr made (waffenamt e/623), but typically they are small parts, floorplates, triggers etc.. and very rarely. This ends not long after the range of this rifle, after which only stocks and barrels were made by SDP-Steyr.

dkay62 said:
Thanks Loewe. Why can't you do "LIKE" on the Mauser Forum?
Do you know if SDP assembled these in Austria or Poland? I know there is some Radom parts on this rifle.
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