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New Guy with BNZ4 Questions

KSH67

KSH67

Senior Member
Hi folks. I'm a new member to the board. Been a collector of German WWII militaria for years. I picked up a sporterized BNZ 4 this weekend. Got it for $150. I'm looking for some info on whether what I have is "right" and need to know what kind of stock I should be looking for on this one. This one has no import mark and everything matches - sort of. I have only ever had early war 98s so this later war stuff is uncharted territory for me.

-Receiver is marked BNZ. 4 and has WaA326.
-Barrel has serial of 1340 over T and is marked with a L N BNZ over 1 in a shield and WaA326.
-Sight parts are marked 40 (except slide) with WaA326.
-Bolt stop/ejector is unmarked

Here is the sort of part. The bolt is definitely the right stye of bolt for the rifle. It matches condition exactly, it is the late war with the round holes and lack of that extra rib that the extractor passes over as it rotates. The problem (or is it?) is that for sure on the firing pin, cocking piece and maybe the bolt handle it looks like the 4 was stamped over a 3. So the bolt handle was 1330 and then restamped over with a 4 to make it 1340 and the other parts were 30 and 4 restamped to make it 40. Fonts look right, finish looks right and it was a $150 sporterized rifle. SO could this have been a factory flub or Waffenmesiter restamp?

-Top of bolt handle is marked 1340 over T
-Bolt sleeve has faint 1340.
-Cocking piece is marked 40
-Safety lever is unmarked.

Also some other parts are not numbered at all and are different manufacturers.
-The floorplate is marked BYF with 135 WaA.
-The trigger guard is marked SVW and has no capture screw areas.
-The follower is marked lxr (I think)
Is this correct for a BNZ 4 to have these other manufacturers parts or is this a put together?

I will be posting a bunch of pics shortly. Let me know what you guys think. Also is full kriegsmodel stock the way to go or do I have other options to make this "right" configuration.
Thanks
Kevin

BNZ4full.jpg

BNZ4Rcvrring.jpg

BNZ4Barrelleft.jpg

BNZ4BarrelRight.jpg


More pics of receiver and sights

BNZ4Rcvrrear.jpg

BNZ4Sightright.jpg

BNZ4Sightbasemark.jpg

BNZ4Sightmark.jpg


Bolt Pics

BNZ4bolt.jpg

BNZ4lateboltholes.jpg

BNZ4boltupper.jpg

BNZ4Boltlower.jpg

BNZ4boltrear.jpg


Firing Pin Mark

BNZ4pinmark.jpg
 
New Guy with BNZ 4 Questions More pics

Triggergaurd, floorplate and follower

BNZ4Triggerguard.jpg

BNZ4floorplate.jpg

BNZ4follower.jpg


Stock Channel Mark - Hard to tell but looks like eagle over WaA326

BNZ4ChannelMark.jpg
 
What you have is a bnz45 built using a bnz4 receiver. Not unheard of, and not especially common. The stock is hacked up by a post war sporter attempt, but the rest is matching and looks correct. A neat restoration project in my opinion.
 
yep

thats one that deserves a second look. That would fall into a textbook bnz T block stock. Full kreigs either laminate or walnut. But, its a long wait to get the correct stock.
 
Last edited:
Turbo Archie said:
That was a score!!

Is that barrel phosphate??

Get in line for a stock (see my sig..)



..
Click to expand...

I'm with ya' on the stock...

I have 1 "s" block and 2 "T" block matching BA with all correct metal waiting for the same stock....

So darn many of these BNZ 45 built rifles where sporterized...I'm sure that it was simply that these very late war guns where the best to be found in a pile, there new condition was prefered and picked up originally on the battle field...Brought home and turned into sporters--because a good quality BA Sporting rifle was still well out of $$$ range for returning GI's.

I wish a good quality repop was available to atleast complete so many of these late war examples.

In all my collecting years, I have 1 late war stock---1!...and it was'nt correct for a BNZ example

BAF
 
wow!

This is a great reception for a new guy! Thanks for the replies guys, looks like I did ok on this one. Also looks like I will be adding myself to the long list of folks looking for a kriegs stock. If I was able to find one what do you think the value of the rifle would be?

Also, I think the barrel is phosphate finish, definitely not blued.
Thanks again,
Kevin
 
KSH67 said:
This is a great reception for a new guy! Thanks for the replies guys, looks like I did ok on this one. Also looks like I will be adding myself to the long list of folks looking for a kriegs stock. If I was able to find one what do you think the value of the rifle would be?

Also, I think the barrel is phosphate finish, definitely not blued.
Thanks again,
Kevin
Click to expand...

The above with a mismatched stock.....it's hard to tell, somedays astrnomical prices on auction sites--but a reasonable sale would be $1200-$1400 or so.....but to land a correct bnz late war stock if it is at auction for other collectors to view---I know I would go north of $700 or so for a nice used one--maybe more....

BAF
 
Thanks BAF, that is helpful. I plan on holding on to this one but I also don't want to put more than it would be worth into buying a stock (if I find one).
Kevin
 
bnz4

Kevin
Just a tip on these old bnz's. I wouldn't recommend going out and shooting that rifle. Steyr was known to have used large amounts of slave labor in there manufacturing plants. It is known that they would over harden parts in the bolt assembly that would result in failure after little use but just good enough to pass inspection. I would never shoot any of my bnz45's. Just a heads up! Also if you ever want to part with that assembly please keep me in mind. I have the parts to put her back together again and I don't have this configuration yet.
 
31pickemup said:
Kevin
Just a tip on these old bnz's. I wouldn't recommend going out and shooting that rifle. Steyr was known to have used large amounts of slave labor in there manufacturing plants. It is known that they would over harden parts in the bolt assembly that would result in failure after little use but just good enough to pass inspection. I would never shoot any of my bnz45's. Just a heads up!
Click to expand...

The stories of sabotage are much overblown. Your rifle is very safe to shoot.

Nice find by the way. Definitely worth restoring, though you may be looking for a stock for a long time.:thumbsup:
 
I agree, such stories are mostly fantasy- though they often originate from period interviews (Buchenwalde Report & intel-interrogation reports) where the newly liberated workers or "collaborators" try and make the case of resisting the nazi occupation.

The factories had elaborate systems to remedy such activities, and harsh penalties for violators, from undercover workers-informers (you never really knew who was who) to extensive oversight. The Czechs spoke of the risks involved in the BIOS reports and most just did what they had to but nothing more, - not risking themselves or others for the slight gain sabotage would achieve.


RyanE said:
The stories of sabotage are much overblown. Your rifle is very safe to shoot.
Click to expand...
 
Mikes right this is a cool one hang on to it and sock it away! The '45 assembled '44 receivers are not at all common - I've got three in my notes over the years and all in the S block. I've got one late S block (can't remember sn and buried at the moment!) BNZ 44 that's neat cause it has a pinstripe stock to-boot. but all the ones I haven seen are oversize "BNZ 44" not "bnz 4" like this - first one for me so doubly cool. Also the receiver is blued? At this point they were phosphate so is the blue "leftover" as well?
 
31pickemup said:
Kevin
Just a tip on these old bnz's. I wouldn't recommend going out and shooting that rifle. Steyr was known to have used large amounts of slave labor in there manufacturing plants. It is known that they would over harden parts in the bolt assembly that would result in failure after little use but just good enough to pass inspection. I would never shoot any of my bnz45's. Just a heads up! Also if you ever want to part with that assembly please keep me in mind. I have the parts to put her back together again and I don't have this configuration yet.
Click to expand...

Do you have any proof of this?....examples that have been distroyed?....

More of a story then truth, all of my "T" block shoot very well with there like new bores...Would not hesitate to shoot any bnz late war gun that has been inspected....I wish this myth would quit growing.

The late 1944/early 1945 ASSEMBLED guns had some different receiver markings mixed up(BNZ44/bnz4/bnz 45) that seemed like there was not a definate specific serial number change over--seemed the receivers where mixed up for a few weeks of production...nothing unheard of....Same---same for bnz45/swj XE, the serial numbers intertwine within this late production.

BAF
 
bnz

I never said that these blow up or the gun is destroyed. I'm saying I've seen 2 or 3 examples that the cocking mechanism starts developing a crack or starts to split. So whoever shoots theirs go right ahead. I'm not, they're just to expensive to take the chance on damaging. I don't agree there perfectly safe.
 
31,

You have a nice stock to complete this rifle?

I have a few late Stery stocks, but they aren't minty to put on this action..


.
 
stock

I actually have a real nice walnut piece I could use. I'm not sure if you would need minty for this piece. Hard to tell how this one would clean up from the pictures.
 
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