New Auction Candidate Russian Capture 1937

Gerst said:
That’s what I originally thought. The auction guy told me that in response to my questions. It looks too grainy to be solid. The auction “gun guys” sometimes aren’t very knowledgable and you have to rely on your eyes.
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Seems to be that the majority of "auction gun guys" aren't well versed in much at all, especially K98's. I'm sure they know enough to get by, but with a rifle such as a K98, the little details can make a difference of hundred of dollars.

When high end collectors websites don't get them right either, that's saying something...
 
Second thoughts

You guys are making me have second thoughts. The trigger guard is wrong. The bolt is a mismatch and is probably a bolt from a different manufacturer. The stock is lacquered-up and banged up. The auction house is unreliable with their descriptions. I’d be better off spending a few hundred more with a member to get what I want than blowing $700 on a rifle that has been screwed up by the Russkis.

Thanks guys. Second thoughts are a lot better than “buyer’s remorse” which is what the Democrats will have if that senile idiot gets sworn in after they stole the election.
 
Gerst said:
You guys are making me have second thoughts. The trigger guard is wrong. The bolt is a mismatch and is probably a bolt from a different manufacturer. The stock is lacquered-up and banged up. The auction house is unreliable with their descriptions. I’d be better off spending a few hundred more with a member to get what I want than blowing $700 on a rifle that has been screwed up by the Russkis.

Thanks guys. Second thoughts are a lot better than “buyer’s remorse” which is what the Democrats will have if that senile idiot gets sworn in after they stole the election.
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You beat me to it. Spend more get a bolt mismatch. Nothing about RC's match. The barrel is about the only thing that will match. Those guns were all taken apart, refinished, and then put together with what ever part was grab out of the bin. Accept them for what they are.
 
mto7464 said:
You beat me to it. Spend more get a bolt mismatch. Nothing about RC's match. The barrel is about the only thing that will match. Those guns were all taken apart, refinished, and then put together with what ever part was grab out of the bin. Accept them for what they are.
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I found another 1937 rifle at auction. It looks like the front and rear bands match but the bolt matches the receiver and barrel. It is not a capture weapon but the butt plate had a new serial number with a strike out like a Norwegian “capture.” It looks decent. The stock probably isn’t original to the receiver and barrel. Did the Norwegians mix up parts too?
 
New JP Sauer candidate

Here is the write-up:

DESCRIPTION

1937 GERMAN JP SAUER & SOHN MODEL 98 RIFLE
JP Sauer & Sohn Model 98 bolt action rifle, chambered in 7.92x57mm. Dated 1937 below Variation II code stamp "S/147" on receiver. Zella-mehlis E/359 eagle reich mark and Suhl weimar E/214 inspection stamps on right side of barrel and receiver. Bolt has matching serial number with receiver and barrel. Serial number "5989" over F suffix and Imperial German eagle on left side of barrel and receiver. Unterring device and barrel band marked with waffenamt "WaA655" and serial number 9493. Rear sight post marked with Reich eagle and serial number 9027. Magazine housing marked with waffenamt "37" and serial number 2365. Magazine floor plate marked with waffenamt "'WaA63" and serial number 7305. Underside of stock stamped with 5. Waffenamt "655", serial number 6825 and serial number 1493 crossed out on butt plate. No visible import markings. Eagle over "H" cartouche on right side buttstock, with two additional waffenamt cartouche that are illegible. Bottom of buttstock stamped with illegible serial number, appears to read: "9498", and "P" under wrist. "655" waffenamt on takedown disc, and through pin.
Caliber / Gauge: 7.92x57mm
Barrel Length: 24"
 
JP Sauer 1937

Is this bolt correct?
 

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Gerst said:
I didn’t think so. The write-up says that the bolt matches. It doesn’t. ANOTHER DEAD END!
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I’m not sure what auction site you’re on, but I’d avoid it. For K98s at least. This forum is the only place I’d get one myself.
 
GeeRam said:
Funnily enough, all of the early dated ('35-'39) RC's I have personally seen here in the UK, have all had pretty good bore's on their original barrels.
Maybe most of the early dated rifles were likely the ones captured in the east from the first winter 41/42 counter attacks, and so that was the end of their use. I doubt many pre-41 dated rifles came back west with the retreating German forces.
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I think it is quite impossible to say when any given RC was taken by the Russians. It could have been taken after a battle, or from the huge surrender piles at wars end. Some early rifles could have been with units that didn't see as much front line action as others and were just thrown in the pile in May of 45. Just no way to ascertain any definitive pre RC history from these other than being WW2 German rifles. I would think many of the earliest captured rifles probably also sat the longest with no maintenance or cleaning until they got refurbished.
 
Gerst said:
I think it is a Yugoslav bolt!
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The Yugoslav M48 bolt has the flat side on the ball like that, but they won't fit in a standard length K98k action. I've never seen them modify a K98k bolt like that, but who knows?
 
I believe that bolt to be from a K98AZ . The stock appears to be a laminate. The sling, lock screws, and cleaning rod were added by the former owner. The sling is most likely a Yugo sling. Those RC rifles came in the box lacking sight hoods, cleaning rods, capture screws, bayonets, and slings. For a review of gun show rifles that shows some of my specimens see:
http://www.surplusrifleforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1911

As for price, in WI it is not out of the ball park to see $600-700 on a Russian Capture that remains intact. Some put $800 on a tag which is suckers bait for high rollers. If you want a shooter, an RC with the correct numbered bolt will headspace perfect, but the condition of the bores and muzzle crown vary greatly. I would inspect one in person at top buck ($700). If more of a collector, I would favor an all matching non RC K98K with a mismatched bolt, nice, but not so nice you would not shoot it. Buy the best you can afford.
 
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72usmc said:
I believe that bolt to be from a K98AZ
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I think that's what they were 'going for' but I don't believe it is. The flat to arc edge is awful and there are a few other things that just aren't right. A better photo would certainly tell the tale but I wouldn't count/gamble on it being a legit piece.
 
You are the expert, I do not own an AZ. The best photos of a real bolt are here toward the bottom of the page:
Source of photos:
http://www.hoosiergunworks.com/catalog/mauser_reference.html


Good eye, it is odd they would try to fake an incorrect bolt on an RC????? I believe you are nuts on. Very strange- a rifle I think I would avoid. Something is fishy and does it headspace? An incorrect bolt. A replacement K98K bolt is going to be $150-200 for matching. Even a dog parts bolt is $100. Then will it headspace? Maybe you will need two to get it right.
 

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72usmc said:
You are the expert, best photos of a real bolt are here toward the bottom of the page:

http://www.hoosiergunworks.com/catalog/mauser_reference.html


Good eye, it is odd they would try to fake an incorrect bolt on an RC????? Very strange- a rifle I think I would avoid.
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They probably weren't trying to "fake" the bolt. It could be that a Mauser bolt was needed and this one was found or someone decided to grind half the knob down for preference purposes.
 
OR this is some junk bolt and people (fraudsters) know that a 98a bolt is worth $xxx so they make the junk bolt look like this hoping it entices them to overpay? Some of the slimy BS I've seen lately makes me thnk this was probably intentional to mislead.
 
heavy_mech said:
OR this is some junk bolt and people (fraudsters) know that a 98a bolt is worth $xxx so they make the junk bolt look like this hoping it entices them to overpay? Some of the slimy BS I've seen lately makes me thnk this was probably intentional to mislead.
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A very good possibility.
 
I agree maybe a preference with work done by owner, when you enlarge the thumbnail small photo I see that the flat is ground or polished smooth. I am use to normal size photos on another forum. A K98k bolt that was ground on someones rifle. I assume that second rifle has no import mark? To correct, one would have to get another bolt body or complete bolt. More added cost to factor in. Parts have gotten so crazy price wise and they are hard to find. It is better to get a rifle that is correct and in the configuration that you want. I still think a nice intact RC at $450-500 would be a good shooter. Also at $700 -1200 you need to inspect what you are getting in person. Also with bring backs you need a knowledgable K98k collector friend with you to look at the bring backs. Too many fakers and non real, bring backs at gun shows that the average person cannot identify or recognize.
 
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