Need help identifying my Kar98k

[Rusticus]

Hello all you fine folks,

I have finally fulfilled a long dream of owning a Karabiner 98k and she's a real beauty.

I'm totally new to gun ownership and I'm having trouble identifying all the markings though. All the info I have from the previous owner is that it is supposed to be produced around 42-43, but I cannot find anything that confirms this. It would have been prefered to own one that was actually produced and used in Germany before the war ended (not after).

Any help would be much appreciated!

Cheers
Sebastian

 

[Muncher 1953]

It appears to be a Yugoslav used German K98k, later reworked by WaffenWerk Frankonia, with modern markings added in a manner consistent with the civilian European market. Yugo used by the serial numbering on the right side of receiver, outer curve of bolt handle & left side of butt stock. A flat butt plate laminated stock would typically have been earlier than ‘42-43’ but the stock may not match the barreled action, which could be later. The front sight base appears to have been slotted for a hood at some time, that came along with cupped butt plates, timewise. The top & left side of the receiver ring has been ground to remove original maker, year, sn, firing proof & inspection stamps. looks like a new barrel, eagle/N proofed on barrel & receiver, then a shield (Munchen proof house?) followed by a new serial number, then the caliber, & last a ‘WWF’ stamping. I’m not familiar with the partial marks in the line above the serial, ‘circle v’? perhaps Yugo markings partially removed?
The WaA on the right butt, WaA280? I think the e/# on the head of the recoil lug is e/63, but these wouldn’t belong together, if I’ve read them correctly. Are there serial numbers &/or e/#s -WaA#s on any of the other metal parts, butt plate, bands, band spring, trigger guard, floor plate, follower, rear sight parts, screws, take down discs, bayonet lug? All of these marks can tell parts of the rifle’s story.

 

[Remfan]

Too bad the maker and year was ground off the receiver ring. Hopefully the gun will be a good "shooter grade"

 

[Rusticus]

It appears to be a Yugoslav used German K98k, later reworked by WaffenWerk Frankonia, with modern markings added in a manner consistent with the civilian European market. Yugo used by the serial numbering on the right side of receiver, outer curve of bolt handle & left side of butt stock. A flat butt plate laminated stock would typically have been earlier than ‘42-43’ but the stock may not match the barreled action, which could be later. The front sight base appears to have been slotted for a hood at some time, that came along with cupped butt plates, timewise. The top & left side of the receiver ring has been ground to remove original maker, year, sn, firing proof & inspection stamps. looks like a new barrel, eagle/N proofed on barrel & receiver, then a shield (Munchen proof house?) followed by a new serial number, then the caliber, & last a ‘WWF’ stamping. I’m not familiar with the partial marks in the line above the serial, ‘circle v’? perhaps Yugo markings partially removed?
The WaA on the right butt, WaA280? I think the e/# on the head of the recoil lug is e/63, but these wouldn’t belong together, if I’ve read them correctly. Are there serial numbers &/or e/#s -WaA#s on any of the other metal parts, butt plate, bands, band spring, trigger guard, floor plate, follower, rear sight parts, screws, take down discs, bayonet lug? All of these marks can tell parts of the rifle’s story.

Hey, amazing! Thank you alot for that detailed analysis! I guess I'll have to disassemble it and check for numbers.

 

[Muncher 1953]

try to get good clear close ups of all the inspection marks, they can tell a lot, even when found mismatched. the back & undersides of the bolt handle (where it attaches to the cylinder part) will have a firing proof & maker+inspection marks, a clear shot of the bolt cut out with the handle up, (not all cut outs are the same shape, sometimes you can tell who made the stock by the shape of it) and any marks you may find in the barrel channel of the stock. (1 or more stamped serial #s, sometimes pencil or ink stamp marks)

 

[Rusticus]

try to get good clear close ups of all the inspection marks, they can tell a lot, even when found mismatched. the back & undersides of the bolt handle (where it attaches to the cylinder part) will have a firing proof & maker+inspection marks, a clear shot of the bolt cut out with the handle up, (not all cut outs are the same shape, sometimes you can tell who made the stock by the shape of it) and any marks you may find in the barrel channel of the stock. (1 or more stamped serial #s, sometimes pencil or ink stamp marks)

So after a short youtube video I dissassembled it myself ^^ fairly straightforward, although I chipped a piece of skin when removing the round part behind the bayoned holder.

I found some additional numbers and markings, maybe you find this helpful.

 

[Muncher 1953]

pic 1: although there is no dictionary for the many marks on the bottom of the receiver, one in particular tells us that this part was made by Mauser Oberndorf (main factory, home of ‘Mauser Corp’) & that is the stylized “R over W”, often found on initially rejected but reworked parts.
pic 2: 7038 is the sn of the rifle the stock was originally fitted to, ‘maybe’ this barreled action.
pic 3: the cleaning rod nut e/655 corresponds to a MO stock of a certain time period, after e/63 was moved to Brno & before the change to e/135. Can you make out the e#s on the right butt, under the ‘eagle H’ mark? What is the e# on the head of the recoil lug?
pics 4, 6, 7 & 9 show marks inconsistent with ‘normal’ German prewar & wartime barrel marks, so I still think the barrel was replaced at some time.
pic 5: the trigger & sear were inspected by e/214, serving Erma & Sauer & Sohn from’35-‘39 and Berlin-Lubecker maschinenfabrik from ‘39-‘45. This assembly made in wartime, but probably a post war replacement, maybe when Frankonia redid the rifle? Factories with a surplus of a particular part often supplied them to other factories, but less likely if the rifle is an MO, as they supplied parts to others, most often.
pic 10: front sight base is slotted for a sight hood (a post ‘41 characteristic, not all factories did it at the same time); if an earlier rifle was in for repair, the slots were cut after the fact (like on flat butt plate rifles) The slot looks added to me, BUT the marks on the base look like Yugo marks to me (another ‘circle v’, etc)

SO…….. my WAG is that your rifle (or at least parts of it) was made by MO, possibly codes S/42, 42 or byf. If the recoil lug is e/63, & depending on the e# on the right butt, it may be earlier than ‘42-‘43. a cupped buttplate stock & front sight base slotted for a hood are later features, relatively speaking.

 

[Telperion]

The marks on the left side of the barrel say, that this rifle was proofed in Mellrichstadt in 1989, that the caliber is 8 mm Mauser and that it was sold by Frankonia.
I don't think that it was reworked by Frankonia- I think that the Yugos removed the genuine maker and didn't even add their own crest or that they removed their crest again later. The finish on the receiver area where one would search for the crest is typical fur Yugoslavia. There's NO new serial on this gun.
It may be coincidental, but I got a Yugo-Mauser in the "W"block as well, on which even the German maker wasn't entirely removed. This Mauser never saw a Yugo-crest added. I got data of 5 others in the W-block that have no crest or left their original maker intact. Maybe it's the arsenal that did the rework.

Just a thought

T

 

[Muncher 1953]

The marks on the left side of the barrel say, that this rifle was proofed in Mellrichstadt in 1989, that the caliber is 8 mm Mauser and that it was sold by Frankonia.
I don't think that it was reworked by Frankonia- I think that the Yugos removed the genuine maker and didn't even add their own crest or that they removed their crest again later. The finish on the receiver area where one would search for the crest is typical fur Yugoslavia. There's NO new serial on this gun.
It may be coincidental, but I got a Yugo-Mauser in the "W"block as well, on which even the German maker wasn't entirely removed. This Mauser never saw a Yugo-crest added. I got data of 5 others in the W-block that have no crest or left their original maker intact. Maybe it's the arsenal that did the rework.

Just a thought

T

T,
can you explain how you interpret the barrel marks? I’d like to learn more…..

 

[Telperion]

Well, from left to right:

The German Beschuss, the proof office, the time-code (I=8, K=9), the caliber and the trader's mark.

s. also:

Waffen - Kennzeichnungen

CODE-Knacker - Lexikon der Codes-Symbole-Kurzzeichen: Waffen - Kennzeichnungen

www.code-knacker.de

 

[Cyrano4747]

Just a quick word of advice if you're going to disassemble this rifle: make sure you do it with proper screwdrivers. Your typical hardware store wedge will mangle the ever loving crap out of them. What you're looking for are hollow-ground screwdrivers. It's pretty easy to pick up a set sized for gunsmiths. A properly fitting blade is important, but most important is that it not be a wedge. In a real pinch the sheet metal screw driver on a swiss army knife will work if you're careful, but obviously you should get properly sized ones if possible.

 

[Absolut]

later reworked by WaffenWerk Frankonia

FWW means Frankonia Waffen Würzburg, not Frankonia Waffen Werk. I do not think they reworked it, just they retailed it.

 

[Muncher 1953]

Well, from left to right:

The German Beschuss, the proof office, the time-code (I=8, K=9), the caliber and the trader's mark.

s. also:

Waffen - Kennzeichnungen

CODE-Knacker - Lexikon der Codes-Symbole-Kurzzeichen: Waffen - Kennzeichnungen

www.code-knacker.de

Thank you, since writing, I’ve done some further research & see that you are entirely correct! (& thanks for that link!)

My apologies for misleading the OP, I missed the format of the modern German markings.

 

[Muncher 1953]

FWW means Frankonia Waffen Würzburg, not Frankonia Waffen Werk. I do not think they reworked it, just they retailed it.

you are correct, of course. My error.

 

[Rusticus]

You guys are absolutely amazing thank you all and especially Muncher 1953 for your big help!