National Arms and Ammunition Co. Birmingham Gewehr 71

[chrisftk]

Hi All,

These rifles have interested me since learning about them several years ago. The notion of a British-made M71 is a curious one. According to Storz, a contract for 150,000 rifles was signed with NA&A in Birmingham. Only around 100,000 were delivered, apparently due to Prussian inspectors being disappointed with the quality. These clearly had a low survival rate, as they seem to be one of the hardest 71s to locate. I believe this makes only 6-7 documented in CB/Paul's records.

Examining them makes evident the difference in German and British proofing. In addition, there are British inspection marks on most parts rather than the Prussian C/Letter style. The stocks are also not internally numbered, but rather externally on the left side of the butt in a departure from Prussian convention.

A friend stumbled on this recently and fortunately sent pics, as he did not know what it was. He was also kind enough to snag it for me and sell it to me at cost. The rifle is in fantastic shape and retains great finish by M71 standards. The largest distraction is that the bolt is mismatched, but the rest of the rifle is matching and unspoiled. Unit marked to Reserve Infantry Regt Nr. 61-- A Pomeranian unit out of Thorn.

I'll let the pics do the talking.. Thanks for looking and enjoy!

 

[Nick S]

Chris,

Awesome find! Beautiful shape and super rare! Such a unique variation.

 

[AbigailRoss]

Wow, great weapon, a super find, you really lucked out)))

 

[yellowkid]

I had no idea such a thing existed. Really neat. Hard to imagine Germany being an importer of arms when you think about all the contract 98s shipped out. I wonder what the soldiers thought of carrying a British made product given their own reputation for precision!

 

[FIB48]

Speaking of NA&A M71, I have several docs indicate that China took over some M71 which NAA had initially made for Prussian Gov.

 

[chrisftk]

Speaking of NA&A M71, I have several docs indicate that China took over some M71 which NAA had initially made for Prussian Gov.

That makes total sense-- they tried to peddle some that Prussia turned away to Bavaria and they declined. China would be another likely place to try and park them.

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[Nick S]

I had no idea such a thing existed. Really neat. Hard to imagine Germany being an importer of arms when you think about all the contract 98s shipped out. I wonder what the soldiers thought of carrying a British made product given their own reputation for precision!

Believe it or not at that time the Germans didn’t have the precision machines necessary to produce large amounts of arms with any kind of efficiency. They bought a huge amount of machines and tooling from Pratt and Whitney to set up the arsenals to produce the 1871 Mauser.

 

[Peter S]

I had no idea such a thing existed. Really neat. Hard to imagine Germany being an importer of arms when you think about all the contract 98s shipped out. I wonder what the soldiers thought of carrying a British made product given their own reputation for precision!

Yes, Craig Brown bought one of them at one of the Show of Shows. The one he bought even had the "U" shaped magazine that attached on the outside.

 

[chrisftk]

Yes, Craig Brown bought one of them at one of the Show of Shows. The one he bought even had the "U" shaped magazine that attached on the outside.

I remember the one with the experimental mag. One of many I am sad I missed at CB's auction.

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[Loewe]

The earliest recorded! Like the 1874 date and the 1876 issuance. CB's is the closest to yours, next earliest, and as others have said his came with the magazine. This was one of the last things we discussed, he died about a week after he took possession of his NA&A 71 with the magazine. I can tell you he was highly pleased with its arrival, he said his wasn't cheap!

Still, as you and others have said, a very nice example of this rare maker, - hopefully we can get some earlier ones, perhaps 1874 dated also to develop a firmer pattern.

**I agree with Nick, Germany was not quite capable technologically at this time, though this was changing fast and Germany soon passed England as the most industrialized nation in Europe (US had done so earlier, Loewe owed a great deal to the US for its part in this process, though they had good connections in England also... P&W supplied the machine tools and technical skill for this production upgrade - to the arsenals - but Loewe and others - Fritz Werner etc.. would soon take this task on towards a more German method or technique. The US excelled in making machines for high volume, speed and often single or narrow purpose, while England made the finest machines that multi-tasked but needed highly skilled operators, and operated at slower pace; the Germans sought the middle ground of these too themes. America specialized in high volume, high quality and durability, products that would last decades - total opposite of the crap today where you are lucky to get a product that lasts a month, typically designed to outlast the return window... cheap and disposable is not the American tradition, but it fits the reflection of our "society" today...)

 

[Loewe]

You know, I think CB and I were talking (emailing) with Jon Speed about the magazine at the time, I will see if I can see if anything is worth sharing in that regard...

 

[chrisftk]

You know, I think CB and I were talking (emailing) with Jon Speed about the magazine at the time, I will see if I can see if anything is worth sharing in that regard...

Thanks Paul, That would be very interesting to see.

It's a shame the bolt is m/m on this example, but beggars can't be choosers I suppose. I was happy just to get one.

I'm hoping to come across a Dreyse made example at some point, though they seem to be equally hard to locate.


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[Loewe]

Chris, I took some time and looked into my correspondence with CB and Jon Speed at the time, some of it from Jon Speed on the magazine may serve us well. It turns out that CB's 5742 E with the magazine Jon Speed had glass plate images of so the rifle can be placed into a historical context. Jon did not share this glass plate with me at the time, or if he did I didn't save it with the email exchanges. I will have to delve into this more and see if I can access my old email program, maybe some images or more detail is there... had CB lived longer more may have come of this exchange, Craig was exchanging emails with Jon at the time of his death. He was complaining of being exhausted from the SOS show he had just attended, no one imagined he would be gone a week later.

Here is some emails from Jon to me and or CB regarding the history of the magazine:

----- Original Message -----
From: m@t-online.de
To: Loewe-AG@Hughes.net
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2016 12:31 AM
Subject: Jon Speed news


Paul, Lockhoven and later myslef have looked at the various External mags fitted to single shot Mod. 71 rifles and the only Paul Mauser example that got to an actual patent was the Vertical feed unit which you can see in the Mauser patent book by Korn. . The U shaped examples recorded were most likely of Loewe group manufacture and the few known examples like the one Bob Landies now has was tested on the English made Model. 71. Lockhoven had inside access to the Munich Patent offices and others and never located an actual Patent drawing on the U shaped unit. Thats all the info I have on this subject. Regards, Jon



----- Original Message -----
From: m@t-online.de
To: Loewe-AG@Hughes.net
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2016 9:22 AM
Subject: Jon Speed news


Paul, its also possible some of the other makers like Danzig and Erfurt and Spandau may have played small role in the U shaped unit as I just found a Hand Written letter to I guess Paul Mauser by a Person from Danzig talking in 1880 about some form of external mags etc. I will try to get a translation of this to see if in fact there is any data of interest. I found this doc in the Lockhoven file on this subject. I have in my collection a Mauser 71 test riflle set up for left side veritcal feed magazine and obtained from a French General who took this mag and some Paul Mauser self loading rifles from Pauls private collection. . This 71 is the latest date I have ever seen 1883 and bolt and action have all the latest patent features such as new Ejector and other newest features just before the Model 82 test rifles with tube feed mags came on line which led to the 71/84 model etc. Jon



----- Original Message -----
From: m@t-online.de
To: Loewe-AG@Hughes.net
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2016 1:23 AM
Subject: Jon Speed news


Paul, I have been in touch with Mr. Brown and it looks like I found a Critical doc in the Lockhoven files named Add on Magazines for Model 71 rifles.We have a letter from a person working in Danzig factory who had inside info on Spanadu tests of this U shaped magazine which he shared with Paul Mauser but in letter the guy had to cover himself so he uses term( my good friend )in place of Pauls name etc. Anyway, Mr. Brown was delighted with this never before known item of history! Ok, take care for now. Jon