Well count me in for a flat and a trunnion. I don't care to build a rifle but I want them anyways.
MP44 Flat?
- Thread starter 2nd amend law
- Start date
Well count me in for a flat and a trunnion. I don't care to build a rifle but I want them anyways.
2nd amend law
Junior Member
I'm in. I would love to buy a flat and trunion. Just tell me when and how much.
Hmg
Look at that beautiful stamping. With that ability they could likely make decent MP44 mags too.
Not to beat on them but if wanting to shoot 7.62X39, get a AK. 5.56 Or 300 BO, get a AR.
Too cheap to shoot Kurz? Go fish!
Pete
I've commented before and still believe making that rifle to be able (be able so far???) to shoot multiple calibers was a mistake. Betcha if it was only in Kurz it would have been done, tested and available long before now. Could have copied an original Sturmgewehr, right?
Look at that beautiful stamping. With that ability they could likely make decent MP44 mags too.
Not to beat on them but if wanting to shoot 7.62X39, get a AK. 5.56 Or 300 BO, get a AR.
Too cheap to shoot Kurz? Go fish!
Pete
GunKraut
Senior Member
I feel sorry for them. They are obviously skilled manufacturers but poor business men. One look at SMG would have told them there is a market for quality repros. They could have simply copied the MP44 concept, add some denial features to receiver and trunnion and call it a day. Maybe reinforce the bottom slot in the receiver for more durability. There was no reason for multi-caliber. The most I would have been comfortable with is 7.92mm/7.62mm, similar to SMG's 8mm/.308 versions. Too bad Ian McCollum didn't talk them out the multi-cal nightmare.
Sen24
Well-known member
I didn’t mean to sound too harsh towards HMG. They seem like decent folks trying to accomplish a very difficult task. I hear their Cetme-L builds are very well done. But the hype for these guns obviously came way too early and I think they were trying to cater to too many people by offering multiple calibers/barrels and such. I’m sure making a closer replica of the real StG would be more expensive and price a lot of potential buyers out. Using HK lowers to allow for registered sears isn’t a terrible idea and cheaper than producing the overly complicated lower of a MP44 from scratch. But the SMG FG42 is a great example of how, in my opinion, you can create a quality replica but still make concessions. (Milled receiver versus stamped for instance) The biggest thing Rick did right was massive R&D to create a WORKING rifle first and then commit to buyers. They spent countless hours and testing making sure this FG42 would operate with a reasonable level of reliability. I have one and love it. And it IS an FG42 at its core and not some frankenstein committee design that barely resembles its historical brethren. But to each their own. $5000 is a lot more than $1800. The biggest shame is that the HMG still isn’t released years after so many promises and there’s not even a video(to my understanding) of the rifle shooting more than a couple rounds without jamming constantly.
A person who owns a registered HK sear/pack couldn't use it in this gun, at least not legally. The pack can only be used on HK type guns. Some guys out there were making M249 clones and came across this, then there are the MG-34 AR uppers that can't use a registered AR lower component. Just the rules.
Sen24
Well-known member
Interesting. Learn something everyday.
Yea, its one of those "gun family" things designed to limit changes. Otherwise, some smart a$$ out there would take a Mac-10 receiver, flatten it into a press, and then use it as an M-240b sideplate.
There were guys pulling stuff sort of like this a few years ago, "washing" paperwork by transferring guns several times with slightly different names each time, until the new gun wasn't the old one. They just kept the serial and make, and then made a "fake" gun using the information from the now-destroyed one. So an Mac 10 would become an M10 would become a M1910 would become a Maxim M1910, etc.
Click here for the indictment
It made the paperwork process a real headache for all of us for a while, as the ATF began rejecting forms that didn't 100% match the prior paperwork. My old PPSH-41 was apparently registered in 9mm when it was remanufactured, I guess because 7.62 tok ammo was hard to find back then. When I acquired it, the gun was in the proper caliber, and the paperwork matched that caliber, but my forms were rejected when I went to sell it. They went deep into it's paperwork trail and caught the change, and said it was a no go, they didn't care what caliber it was actually in. So I had to change my outgoing Form 4 to state that my PPSH was chambered in 9mm, otherwise the forms wouldn't go through. I'm wanting to say that my M-2 carbine had a similar problem, but my memory has hazed with time. I think when it was registered, the guy just put what length he thought that the barrel was, within an inch or so, and called it a day. By the time I got it, the paperwork stated the exact barrel length, to like the quarter inch. Got rejected. Yea...
Last edited:
Sen24
Well-known member
Thanks for info. In that case I think they would be better off stamping a scale replica housing and using AR15 fcg. I know atleast 1 real MP44 semi build that had an original gutted lower and used AR15 trigger/hammer for 922r parts. The rifle worked great and lined up perfectly with the 44 bolt and carrier. But this is all “could’ve, should’ve, would’ve”.
calibers
Looking at most any other cal. for a Sturmgewehr there is the length issue with the Kurz being shorter than any .30 I can think of other than 7.62X25.
Had they not gone the multi cal. route does it not make sense that if they can (can??) offer the multi gun for 17/18 hundred they could have done their version of a semi MP44 (in 8 Kurz) for the same money? They had to make all the parts that are quite similar to MP44 other than the HK fire control parts which they would have had to buy. I wonder if the kind of ugly trigger housing is a result of having to fit that HK pack in the housing.
I agree with Pitfighter though, hoping they are rewarded for their effort even though I'm not a fan of the multi cal. concept.
Pete.
Looking at most any other cal. for a Sturmgewehr there is the length issue with the Kurz being shorter than any .30 I can think of other than 7.62X25.
Had they not gone the multi cal. route does it not make sense that if they can (can??) offer the multi gun for 17/18 hundred they could have done their version of a semi MP44 (in 8 Kurz) for the same money? They had to make all the parts that are quite similar to MP44 other than the HK fire control parts which they would have had to buy. I wonder if the kind of ugly trigger housing is a result of having to fit that HK pack in the housing.
I agree with Pitfighter though, hoping they are rewarded for their effort even though I'm not a fan of the multi cal. concept.
Pete.
2nd amend law
Junior Member
I have also run across this Semi auto builds/sold rifle. The description states the a co K.G.E. has milled a new receiver.
https://www.legacy-collectibles.com/nazi-mp44.html
If you read the description it looks like someone is doing this?
https://www.legacy-collectibles.com/nazi-mp44.html
If you read the description it looks like someone is doing this?
pitfighter
Senior Member
This was the image I found on my old Photobucket -
New milled trunnion. Rewelded sheet metal receiver.
GunKraut
Senior Member
This was the image I found on my old Photobucket -
Are those late war Steyr flats? Looks like a museum display.
GunKraut
Senior Member
Good observation! The receiver has been heavily modified to prevent painless conversion back to full auto. It has been extended in length so it could be closed at the end, preventing an original op-rod with press fit charging handle from being inserted. Therefore they needed to modify the original op-rod to accept a removable, screw-in charging handle. Since the receiver grew in length, so had the trigger housing. I guess fear of the ATF was the driver for the modifications but I've seen much worse on either Weaponeers or Weaponsguild, don't remember exactly where. It was one of those "I shite in my pants whenever I hear ATF" kind over the top, belt and suspenders modifications with removable, hook-in trigger housing without pivoting pin.
pitfighter
Senior Member
Yes - it was a museum in Germany I believe - I downloaded this from the old G/K43 site -
No other info. that I know about the pic.
Sen24
Well-known member
Looking at the flat, it doesn’t seem much different than the HK style flats that you see everywhere and are only $100+ dollars. I know dies for stamping are expensive but I wonder why no one has produced an authentic semi MP44 flat. The need is there. I think there are enough parts, repro or real, for builders to make their own rifles. As it stands now you need a very expensive parts kit with receiver pieces to make this happen. But a source of receiver flats would change this as there are many loose parts on the market. Just one look at gunbroker and you can see no shortage and repro barrels, bolts and stocks are available too. Wouldn’t be super cheap but I can see it cheaper than the 5-7k for a good kit or one of the available PTR44s. And I’d rather have that than a $1800 HMG Sortagewehr
