mismatched bolt bringbacks

S

Stan

Senior Member
We have all heard the common theories on bolt mismatched rifles. I was just wondering if anybody has owned, or has seen bringback papers for a bolt mismatched rifle. I would think some must still exist if there is validity to the bolts removed when rifles were surrendered stories. Of course a mismatched bolt rifle today might possibly have gotten the bolt inadvertently lost and switched in the decades after it was brought home by a vet, but at least it points to a possibility of the condition it was brought back in.
 
Thanks! Sounds like another likely candidate. The stories of bolts removed at surrender seem to lack photo evidence from the many images seen, but I don't doubt it happened in some instances. Surviving papered bringbacks, or shipped home bolt mm rifles would help validate. The ones mailed home would bypass the "bolts removed when boarding a ship to return home" theory, though I also suspect that may have happened in some cases as well.
 
I have a duffle cut WZ98a with a mismatched (also mismatched to itself) 98k bolt. Though that could have been done stateside.
 
I always wonder about the taking bolts out at surrender, its more likely that a bunch of guys sitting around cleaning their rifles a bolt or 2 would get picked up for the wrong rifle. But as mentioned above with out bringback papers its all just speculation.
 
Very good to hear of several rifles that fit that profile. I don't recall such examples being pointed out in previous discussions on the various bolt MM theories, at least not the ones I've read. I do think early imports accounted for many as well.
 
I’ve been collecting, buying and selling 98ks and various other German used bolt action rifles for a bit over 50 years now. Back in those first 25 years many were bought directly from the vets or their immediate family members. There is zero question for me that many vets, perhaps most, brought back MM bolt rifles of those who brought back rifles. There is really no need for theories as there were many ways that bolts got MM, including by the Germans to some extent. A bolt is the easiest part of a rifle to remove, much easier than a cleaning rod or a sling, and they got removed. Based on many conversations with vets on the subject I have long reached the conclusion that those rifles obtained with matching bolts but later ending up with MM bolts happened primarily due to various unit SOPs in the immediate occupation timeframe, embarkation camps and/or shipboard to have the bolts turned in to arms rooms while the soldiers kept up with the rifles. Often if not usually the soldier did not get his bolt back. Different units and different transport ships did it differently and many not at all. Rifles shipped back had less chance of this happening but many were subjected to this in local arms rooms storage before being shipped and the same was true of pistol magazines. Many millions of soldiers were shipped back from Europe alone and it was not a one size fits all regarding how captured arms were handled, stored or transported.
 
Easier than a cleaning rod, I agree!
Great write up!

I call a k98 with both a mismatched bolt and floorplate a trainer...
 
Stan said:
Thanks! Sounds like another likely candidate. The stories of bolts removed at surrender seem to lack photo evidence from the many images seen, but I don't doubt it happened in some instances. Surviving papered bringbacks, or shipped home bolt mm rifles would help validate. The ones mailed home would bypass the "bolts removed when boarding a ship to return home" theory, though I also suspect that may have happened in some cases as well.
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Very late, but I’ve seen interviews with soldiers on the history channel that had this exact scenario, that is, historical footage of the rifles in one pile and bolts in another. Definitely true.
 
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BusinessEd said:
Very late, but I’ve seen interviews with soldiers on the history channel that had this exact scenario is, and even historical footage of the rifles in one pile and bought another. Definitely true.
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Going to say I've seen atleast 2 wartime photos in April/may 1945 that showed distinct piles of surrendered equipment. One was leather accuterments, another was bolt rifles and third pile was definitely bolts of k98s
 
Embalmer said:
Going to say I've seen atleast 2 wartime photos in April/may 1945 that showed distinct piles of surrendered equipment. One was leather accuterments, another was bolt rifles and third pile was definitely bolts of k98s
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Those photos would be good supporting evidence for that scenario. Do you recall seeing those online, or elsewhere?
 
Embalmer said:
Unfortunately going back 15 or so years. Probably on old Culver shooting page. Did find these

One shows bunch of bolts on a table easily mixed up
View attachment 411671

And this one blown up looks like missing bolts

View attachment 411672
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That's interesting! One guy is definitely cleaning the bore of one. They also look to have a huge jug of some cleaning oil/solvent as well on the table. Wonder what these guys were doing with all this equipment. A shame they are getting tossed around like fire wood :/ oh well i'd still take'em all home!
 
Yes, I have seen those before. Not sure what reason they seem to be cleaning the rifles for. It does point to possible mixing of bolts and some rifles without bolts in the one photo. Other photos from that same event show a pile of rifles with bolts and a lot of machine guns, so hard to say what the sequence was. Those photos reportedly taken in North Africa. A couple more from same time...
 

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As Mr. Krabs from SpongeBob would say "LOOK AT ALL THAT LOOT!" 😂
In all seriousness tho I honestly wonder what the value of all that equipment and weapons properly catalogued and stored would fetch price wise today if put up on the market.
 
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