Mauser Oberndorf 71/84 8mm rimmed prototype rifle

[bruce98k]

Ed: I revised the thread name and added detailed images.


Any of you guys ever seen this proof stamp?
Also curious on barrel marking.
Thanks,
Bruce

 

[Cyrano4747]

Is that off that proto-71/84 with the barrel jacket that sold at RIA recently?

 

[bruce98k]

Yes it is...still trying to figure it out.
Getting a cartridge mold at Nates on Monday.

Will post accordingly.

 

[Cyrano4747]

Yes it is...still trying to figure it out.
Getting a cartridge mold at Nates on Monday.

Will post accordingly.

Very nice, I was watching that one pretty closely but had other priorities that I needed to take care of. I'm glad someone from the board picked it up.

Really curious to hear what the chambering ends up being. Really looking forward to hearing more about this one.

 

[chrisftk]

It looks like a Chinese dragon. I can't say that I've ever seen that marking before.

That was a cool rifle; I'm glad you ended up with it Bruce. It was on my watch list, but I ultimately ended up buying a couple other things instead.

 

[AndyB]

Most real a variation of prussian kingdom eagle maybe to differenciate from eagle of Deutsches Reich. Important was the eagle is holding reichs apple , the crown over head is not well visible on the stamp.

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/177470041548731837/

 

[chrisftk]

It may well be an eagle stamped on top of something else inadvertantly. That may be what is making it look weird.

 

[Fal Grunt]

I didnt post anything last night because it looks like a frazzled cat with a beret to me. Or one of those monkeys. . . A lemur?

Not really helpful

 

[Cyrano4747]

I didnt post anything last night because it looks like a frazzled cat with a beret to me. Or one of those monkeys. . . A lemur?

Not really helpful

You're probably thinking of a Tarsier, and lol yeah it kind of does look like that.

 

[Fal Grunt]

That's it!

Sorry Bruce....

 

[MichaelWC]

This rifle is mentioned in Storz 88 and 91 book on pages 36 to 39. On page 39 it does say a batch of rifles was sent to the Bavarian Military School of Musketry. This is just a shot in the dark. Does that proof mark come from the Bavarian Military School of Musketry?

 

[Fal Grunt]

I haven’t had the rifle in hand, yet. Looking forward to seeing it. From what Bruce has said, I don’t *think* it is part of that batch.

 

[bruce98k]

I had Jon summarize what we now know about this rifle:

Bruce, your Mauser Experimental rifle is unique in that the work shop made use of the in white Turkish 87 rifle parts in regards to Barrel type, Receiver and Bolt with the rear Lug. Paul Mauser used this rifle with added barrel Sleeve for whatever reason since over heating with Black Powder rounds was never a big issue. Paul was an ammo fanatic who understood basic Balistic factors and hoped to create a round for the new age of nitro powders that came on line in Germany in 1886 wirth the advent of French label round. Paul had a lot of data from German Professor Habler who was a leading Balistic expert who was trying to convince the German military to move in to a smaller nitro caliber. This rifle appears to be Paul Mausers efforts to create a new round.

Will be adding pics this week.

 

[Cyrano4747]

I had Jon summarize what we now know about this rifle:

Bruce, your Mauser Experimental rifle is unique in that the work shop made use of the in white Turkish 87 rifle parts in regards to Barrel type, Receiver and Bolt with the rear Lug. Paul Mauser used this rifle with added barrel Sleeve for whatever reason since over heating with Black Powder rounds was never a big issue. Paul was an ammo fanatic who understood basic Balistic factors and hoped to create a round for the new age of nitro powders that came on line in Germany in 1886 wirth the advent of French label round. Paul had a lot of data from German Professor Habler who was a leading Balistic expert who was trying to convince the German military to move in to a smaller nitro caliber. This rifle appears to be Paul Mausers efforts to create a new round.

Will be adding pics this week.

Very, very cool. Having a gun that you know the man himself tinkered with is beyond neat.

I wonder if the barrel shroud was an attempt at maximizing accuracy. You see some other contemporary designs move in that way (Gew88, Mauser 1889) so it's not out of no where. This is probably in my head because I've been doing a lot of work tearing down and cleaning jacketed rifles as of late, but looking at the general bedding situation with both the 89 and 88 you're left appreciating that it's effectively a free-floated barrel. We also know that the accuracy of the Gew 71 and Gew 71/84 were never entirely satisfactory and that Mauser (both the company and the man) was pretty actively working on ways to remedy that all through the iterations that produced the Serbian models, the Turkish m1887, and the 71/84.

Just conjecture, but if he was also playing with a new cartridge I could see this being another attempt to address the accuracy concerns.

 

[Stephan98k]

It may well be an eagle stamped on top of something else inadvertantly. That may be what is making it look weird.

 

[AndyB]

No one of these eagles its as it doesnt have reichs apfel., which is there clearly visible. The head was probably damaged of the die. Other point is the fireproof of austrian republic was never stamped on unvisible place and doesnt have to be there.

 

[bruce98k]

I have added new images of the rifle.
We have identified Mauser as the source of the project based on input from Jon Speed.

Here is a copy of the correspondence between Nathaniel and Dr. Storz and Jon Speed.

I have also attached two drawings that Nate created detailing the unique rifling and cartridge dimensions.

Hello Dr. Storz and Jon,

Bruce brought to my shop today a very interesting rifle. Bruce and I gauged the barrel, did a chamber cast, and a general look over the action. The rifle is built on an unmarked Mauser action, which appears to have all of the developments matching a Turkish Model 1887. The rifle bears all the hallmarks of a Prototype/Test rifle, lacking technical stamping, acceptance marks, and even sight graduations.

Dr. Storz, this rifle matches very closely, but not exactly, with the rifle you show in your book on Gewehr 1888's on page 36 and 37. I thought it would be prudent to include you in the conversation in hopes that you may be able to offer some more insight, or even direction if other material may be available for research in the Bayern archive. If possible, I would be very interested to hear your insight, if any of the examples available to you match or are similar to this example.

Jon, I made up drawings of both the barrel and cartridge case for you as I thought you would find them interesting. The rifling is spectacular and fascinating. The relevant data is a 7.95 bore, 8.23 groove diameter, 228mm twist, and has 12 grooves!!!

I have been through both of my DWM books and have not found a directly comparable cartridge case. I have found several that are similar, but I am stymied by the 14mm base and 15mm rim diameter. I suspect that there is a disconnect here as this does not seem appropriate. Bruce just sent over the attached picture of the bolt face which shows this cartridge would not have had the 71/84 base. That skews the numbers on my Case drawing slightly.

A very interesting rifle, thanks Bruce for the opportunity! Dr. Storz, we appreciate any insight or input that you are able to offer, thank you! Jon, I look forward to hearing your thoughts and discussing this one at length!

Take care,

Nathaniel Myers