Mauser 1893 w/ Small Cracks Near Recoil Lugs

[ajczarkowski]

Hi again everyone!

I recently bought a 1893 Mauser. It was made in Germany, sold to the Turks, and in 1933, converted from 7.65 Mauser to 8mm.

Upon initial inspection, I was pretty bummed to see there were some cracks, albeit very small ones, on the wood near the recoil lugs on both sides. This seems to be a major problem with, at the very least, the Turkish Mausers that were converted to 8mm... Nearly every single one I've seen has had cracks in this area. What's that about?

Anyways, I'd like some opinions on how serious these are. I bought this rifle as a shooter. Are there any reliable sporter stocks that anyone knows will fit a 1893 8mm conversion? I was thinking of possibly shooting it with a different stock, I'm not a big fan of wallhangers.

I also should add that, upon further inspection, it actually seems like the recoil lugs nuts on the outside of the stock are a little loose! Maybe this had something to do with the cracks?

Interested in hearing what you guys think about it,

AJ

 

[Honkey Tonk Devil]

Neat piece. Yours still has what's left of the magazine cut-off, don't always see that. Your recoil lug has been taken out and put back in backwards. Doesn't really matter just a sigh it's been fiddled with before. Being loose doesn't help ..
I would take the action out of the stock and look over the wood behind the recoil lug. My guess it's broken or crack out as well.
They can be fixed, Hambone has a good write up on it I believe. Just have to search the site or Internet. I cannot give any advice of an aftermarket stock fitting your gun.

 

[ajczarkowski]

Neat piece. Yours still has what's left of the magazine cut-off, don't always see that. Your recoil lug has been taken out and put back in backwards. Doesn't really matter just a sigh it's been fiddled with before. Being loose doesn't help ..
I would take the action out of the stock and look over the wood behind the recoil lug. My guess it's broken or crack out as well.
They can be fixed, Hambone has a good write up on it I believe. Just have to search the site or Internet. I cannot give any advice of an aftermarket stock fitting your gun.

That was one of the reasons I took a liking to this specific one, I thought it was pretty neat that it still had the magazine cutoff! Although no longer functional.

Good catch, I had no idea that the lug was put on backwards! I figured it probably made things worse that it was loose... Anyways, I'll take the action out of the wood, look it over and report back.

Thanks for the info and reply!

AJ

 

[ajczarkowski]

Ok so I got the stock off (I gotta tell ya, whoever put this thing together last must’ve never wanted anyone else to take it apart… I’m a 27 y/o weight lifter and I had trouble with the screws).

Anyways, surprisingly the only cracks are on the sides where it was also visible on the exterior. Any thoughts on that? Unless I am missing something (I admit I don’t have great eyesight), the inside of the stock is very dirty but no noticable cracks on the horizontal peices of wood behind the recoil lug, between the magazine and trigger or behind the trigger. What appeared to be cracks at first I actually believe are tool marks...

Do we think I might be ok if I fix the recoil lug? How would I go about taking if off and putting it on again anyways? I admit I’m uncertain on what tool they use to get them on and off.

AJ

 

[Honkey Tonk Devil]

I would take the trigger guard out and inspect that wood more. It looks broken out pushed up against the mag well.
I don't know what is going on with your recoil lug someone has been in there doing things.......
With this being a 93 I believe they added recoil lug in one of the overhauls. So I'm not sure what it's suppose to look like in there compared to a 98 style.
It seems maybe the recoil lug was lost and some replaced it and had to grind it to fit. Either way that area needs attention. If I were you I would do some research on what it's suppose to be. I'm sure Google has plenty of results.
The recoil lug tool can be bought off Internet. Just got to search Mauser recoil lug tool.

The pic is what a 98 style area looks like.

 

[Cyrano4747]

With this being a 93 I believe they added recoil lug in one of the overhauls. So I'm not sure what it's suppose to look like in there compared to a 98 style.

Yep, they added that after the fact. It should look broadly similar in that area to what you see in a Spanish m1893. Off the top of my head the main differences between the Ottoman and Spanish m93s are the mag cut-off, a different bayo lug, and a rounded bolt on the Turkish model.

Seconding to pull the magazine and check behind where the front of the mag buts up against the wood. Frankly I wouldn't rule out the cracks being caused by either putting the recoil lug in in the first place (the conversion work done on these could be of variable quality) or whoever installed it backward being a little ham fisted. edit: Note that I'm not ruling out the possibility of it being installed backwards by whoever did the conversion in the first place. Or a later armorer. I cut my collecting/milsurping teeth on Turkish mausers back when you could get them for $50 at sporting good stores, and good lord those guns were not treated well in the back chunk of their service lives when they were militia or whatever other 3rd line unit guns. I've got one in the back of the safe somewhere that had the cleaning rod replaced with a random, ill fitted, bent, brass rod. I saw one in a store ca 2003 or so that I didn't buy where the buttplate was clearly a piece of sheet metal cut to shape. Super thin, like it was cut out of an oil can or something.

If the wood behind it is intact I'd probably shoot it as is and monitor everything closely for signs of cracking. If the wood behind is already cracked it will need to be repaired.

 

[Fal Grunt]

This is a turkish made stock, and yes, almost all of them have this issue due to several contributing factors.

If you want a shooter, the best recommendation is to devcon bed the action, skim bedding the complete action and heavily bedding the rear tang and the recoil lug.

 

[ajczarkowski]

This is a turkish made stock, and yes, almost all of them have this issue due to several contributing factors.

If you want a shooter, the best recommendation is to devcon bed the action, skim bedding the complete action and heavily bedding the rear tang and the recoil lug.

I just did some research on bedding the action w/ epoxy/glass bedding. That does seem like the way to go. I have no gunsmithing experience except with fitting replacement parts to an antique .22 (which come to think about it, is probably about the same age as this rifle). However, this glass bedding procedure doesn’t seem too hard… I’ll have to do a bit more research though. Are there any kits that anyone can recommend?

I admit I paid way more for this rifle than it is worth, mostly because the stock *appeared* to be crack free online, and I specifically wanted to find an 8mm with antique status. I did end up firing it a bit and I was able to hit steel at 200 yards pretty consistently with just its irons, so I am leaning toward keeping it.

 

[Honkey Tonk Devil]

admit I paid way more for this rifle than it is worth, mostly because the stock *appeared* to be crack free online, and I specifically wanted to find an 8mm with antique status. I did end up firing it a bit and I was able to hit steel at 200 yards pretty consistently with just its irons, so I am leaning toward keeping it.

Well imo this is a good place to start learning. Lots of epoxys out there at a wide range of prices. Imo do your research pick what you feel suits you and your price range.

 

[Fal Grunt]

Personally I recommend Devcon 10110.

 

[Cyrano4747]

This is a turkish made stock, and yes, almost all of them have this issue due to several contributing factors.

If you want a shooter, the best recommendation is to devcon bed the action, skim bedding the complete action and heavily bedding the rear tang and the recoil lug.

The turks replaced the m93 stocks? I was under the mistaken impression that they refurbed the ones in service. Color me corrected.

 

[Fal Grunt]

They did. Original contract rifles had a straight grip, with no recoil lug, which you can occasionally find. Here is an example:

TURKEY MODEL 1893 - C52996

Firearms for the Finest Collectors

simpsonltd.com

The Turks refurbishment programs were widely varied. Some 1893's retain there front ring, some have rings added, some have no ring. Some have partial magazine cut off's, some have the complete box, some are ground off. Some rebored original barrels, some are new manufacture barrels.

The whole turk situation is comical, crazy, and makes you want to pull your hair out. The turks had NOS parts that instead of using, they produced inferior quality new. About 6 years ago, when I was last up at Century, they still had several Connex containers full of parts from the 90's Turk deals. They wouldn't sell them to me, since they had no idea what was in them. Springfield Sporters existed as a business because Century did not want to deal with parts, and often times would sell Connex containers full of god knows what to Springfield for the cost of the container and transport. Century might have sold those to APEX (there is a relationship there) since I have been seeing some Turk parts show up on their website. Which of course, like Century, they grade terribly, mis identify, and put up the wrong photographs.

 

[ajczarkowski]

I have noticed the same thing! It really is comical and crazy...

Some have old 1893 straight stocks, some had new ones made, some have had recoil lugs installed midway length of the stock, some have no recoil lugs... As you mentioned, the magazine cutoffs too!

Mine doesn't seem to have had its magazine changed over from the 7.65 Mauser... The Turks own ammo, which I was test firing with this thing along with some Romanian light ball, would not feed in the magazine because the mag was too short!

AJ

 

[Jeremy McLean]

You've received a lot of sound advice here. The verdict is still out on what or who caused those cracks. Looking at the photos you have provided with the action out of the stock would lead me to believe that it is a combination of several things. Being over 100 years old, treated like a step child for that long, taught practices of maintenance, etc.... From the looks of things in your photos the stock looks to have been oil soaked at one time or another. Likely it has been in varying climates with different humidity levels and who knows how many hands have handled it over the past century. You have a great restoration project on you hands.

Jeremy

 

[Cyrano4747]

From the looks of things in your photos the stock looks to have been oil soaked at one time or another.

That's typical for Turkish rifles. I used to joke to my friends that buying a Turkish rifle from Big 5 was like buying box of cracker jacks, except instead of mediocre caramel corn you got 50 lbs of congealed cosmoline and a beat up rifle instead of a chintzy toy.

It was also some uniquely foul cosmoline. The Soviet stuff had nothing on whatever sub-bunker grade hell oil the Turks were making theirs out of. It had a very distinct aroma.

 

[Fal Grunt]

That's typical for Turkish rifles. I used to joke to my friends that buying a Turkish rifle from Big 5 was like buying box of cracker jacks, except instead of mediocre caramel corn you got 50 lbs of congealed cosmoline and a beat up rifle instead of a chintzy toy.

It was also some uniquely foul cosmoline. The Soviet stuff had nothing on whatever sub-bunker grade hell oil the Turks were making theirs out of. It had a very distinct aroma.

Camel fat and goat tallow.