Low vs high turret mounts
- Thread starter Humbarger
- Start date
biggymu
Well-known member
Turret Mount Sniper Rifles
Ok, this one is the big one (and the one I have been dreading putting together). It took a while to do and I spent a long time search for threads. So if I missed anything (and I am sure I did) then please post it here. Plus please point out any errors. This thread will be dedicated to...
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Muncher 1953
Senior Member
short version:
the distinction is really a collector’s thing, but:
the HT is from 1/8”-4mm taller (I’ve read both figures here, difference is .040”) mostly due to a revision in the way the retaining spring goes through the bottom of the front turret. I’ve read that the term really applies to the front turret, but the HT rear must also be taller or it wouldn’t work. The rear ring assembly may be the same, but then the HT rear base would be that same amount taller.
Visually for quick reference, the corners of the front base of a low turret are sharper than the corners of a HT front base, and there’s a step in the front edge of the rear low turret base (the part that’s soldered & screwed onto the rear bridge) that isn’t present on the HT rear. I don’t own both versions to try this, but I’m pretty sure a LT scope w/rings won’t lock into a rifle w/HT bases & vice versa, even if the center distances were identical.
the photos in the link above will show what I wrote about. the bottom of a LT front ring has 4 screws, the HT, none. It was less necessary to mill the safety on a HT, depending on scope profile. The retaining groove on the inside of an LT front base has either a screw or an interrupted cut, making it so the scope can only be put on in one specific way, not so on HT front base.
HTH
the distinction is really a collector’s thing, but:
the HT is from 1/8”-4mm taller (I’ve read both figures here, difference is .040”) mostly due to a revision in the way the retaining spring goes through the bottom of the front turret. I’ve read that the term really applies to the front turret, but the HT rear must also be taller or it wouldn’t work. The rear ring assembly may be the same, but then the HT rear base would be that same amount taller.
Visually for quick reference, the corners of the front base of a low turret are sharper than the corners of a HT front base, and there’s a step in the front edge of the rear low turret base (the part that’s soldered & screwed onto the rear bridge) that isn’t present on the HT rear. I don’t own both versions to try this, but I’m pretty sure a LT scope w/rings won’t lock into a rifle w/HT bases & vice versa, even if the center distances were identical.
the photos in the link above will show what I wrote about. the bottom of a LT front ring has 4 screws, the HT, none. It was less necessary to mill the safety on a HT, depending on scope profile. The retaining groove on the inside of an LT front base has either a screw or an interrupted cut, making it so the scope can only be put on in one specific way, not so on HT front base.
HTH
Muncher, you said that with authority and total conviction- but it’s total 80’s gunshow bullshit. ( not trying to offend, it’s very common misconception , seems harsh)
The above info is total misinformation about turrets spread in sniper circles for many years.
The rear bases are interchangeable, the front turret is the same overall height on high turret and the low turret. You can actually mount a high turret in low turret bases, and both types need cut safeties.
The part about front ring and base difference are correct, but really the change was meant to simplify the front spring.
This was covered in the past, let me find it.
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Muncher 1953
Senior Member
Ouch! Sucked in by misinformation…..
But thanks for the correct info, I’d not seen it explained quite that way.
Yes what Farb said. It was a simplification of production. I don’t even really like calling them low or high turrets but instead early and late. Sniper collectors are not the best at learning or accepting new information.
I can’t find it - but if you set a low turret and high turret scope side by side it shows. Dave Roberts did this before on the forum.
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BLC Zielvier Low Turret and High Turret comparison
Recently been lucky and ran into a rifle advertised as faux sniper rifle. They were right in that the poor picture did show fake bases, but the additional pictures of the scope I requested confirmed that they had used an original BLC Zielvier scope on original turret rings. Therefore I'm now in...
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Absolut
Senior Member
How detailed would you like the answer?
As most had pointed out, the high turret might be called a simplification of the low turret, but there were also a few minor design changes over the whole mount, especially the stopping pins, which kind of were resembled in the early high turret as well, plus differently milled rear base front portion, then a bit different angles at the rear middle part, flat spring to ball in rear wing nut, etc. If you include the Argentine low turret as well, well, then you put in even more variation. Robert Spielauer even once told me Sauer and Mauser have a different spacing between the front and rear base (by 1mm or 0.5mm, so very little), actually never tried to measure if he is correct.
Muncher 1953
Senior Member
wasn’t my question, but as much detail as possible. I’d like to gain a clear understanding of the differences & nuances among turret mounts, so as to avoid sticking my whole leg into my mouth again on these pages.
“Robert Spielauer even once told me Sauer and Mauser have a different spacing between the front and rear base (by 1mm or 0.5mm, so very little), actually never tried to measure if he is correct.”
I’ve wondered about this in particular, (location accuracy & interchangeability) as all of the parts made as well as any installation jigs were measured with mechanical micrometers & mechanical dial indicators. Not that I knew the above detail before but that it seems likely given the technology of measurement at the time & the different locations where work was done. Studying photos in the reference as well as in Matt’s mega-thread, I can see that front mount location varies slightly front to back along the bore axis, relative to the radius & flat at the rear of the receiver ring. 0.5-1.0mm (.020”-.040”) might be enough to make a particular scope not fit another rifle, a good reason to serialize hand fitted components.
biggymu
Well-known member
There are more mismatched rigs floating around than matching, indicating a good deal of interchangeability. Matt or Dave would have a good idea if most are easily interchanged.
Absolut
Senior Member
Mismatching - within Mauser and Sauer yes. But as said, no idea if this also applies to Sauer rings on Mauser bases and vica versa.
I have owned a number of Sauer HT Scope over the years and these scopes did fit Mauser HT Rifles and the Mauser HT Scope also fit Sauer Rifles .
I have had one Sauer LT Scope that would not fit on a Mauser LT Rifle and it was because the cutout on the middle section of the ring that fits on rear base was not opened up enough and it would hit the front right hand corner when I went to rotate it on the base .
I do know of a Mauser LT with Sauer LT Scopes & Rings on them . In fact there is one Sauer LT posted here that has a Mauser LT Scope on it , if memory serves me correctly this Sauer LT has a Mauser BMJ type scope on it . I will also say that I have had a couple Mauser HT rifles that a Scope from another Mauser HT would not fit . The vast majority are interchangeable but not all will be even if scope and rifle are from same manufacturer .
I have had one Sauer LT Scope that would not fit on a Mauser LT Rifle and it was because the cutout on the middle section of the ring that fits on rear base was not opened up enough and it would hit the front right hand corner when I went to rotate it on the base .
I do know of a Mauser LT with Sauer LT Scopes & Rings on them . In fact there is one Sauer LT posted here that has a Mauser LT Scope on it , if memory serves me correctly this Sauer LT has a Mauser BMJ type scope on it . I will also say that I have had a couple Mauser HT rifles that a Scope from another Mauser HT would not fit . The vast majority are interchangeable but not all will be even if scope and rifle are from same manufacturer .
