I had just simply misunderstood, I like to think I know pretty good what I'm talking about about on this rifle, and everything else is as it should be in the rifle. The only thing I couldn't figure out was the bolt numbering and couldnt dig up any info till yesterday. I came here asking for help to narrow down what country may have renumbered the bolt. And that's why I posted more pictures of the bolt, as that's what I thought we were talking about. I completely understand his frustrations with me not uploading what he wanted. I can only imagine how much you guys get that here. This was just a miscommunication between me and him regarding what needed more photos. Thanks chrisftk.
Looking to find a possible explanation for the numbering of of the bolt on my k98a.
- Thread starter WDL0209
- Start date
It took awhile to finally come to a sound conclusion on where the bolt likely came from. I have a comment on this thread that goes over the most likely scenario for how it got there.
heavy_mech
RKI- Reasonably Knowledgable Individual
It does honestly. Not really a lot I'd say, but it for sure does. Occasionally it even seems to rise to a troll where the OP continues with the questions/suppositions while refusing to upload the requested images.
Another similar theme goes like this. OP uploads a 'tease' photo of something of real interest and despite being asked by multiple members for more info/photos, they go Casper mode. Frustrating.
I never meant to come off as "non compliant" or "unwilling" to give further photos. I just gave him the wrong stuff cause I thought that's what we were talking about considering it was the only issue with this rifle and all I wanted was to be able to iron out it's story and where the bolt came from.
heavy_mech
RKI- Reasonably Knowledgable Individual
I hear you and it wasn't meant to be accusatory in your case, just adding some context. I think the original point was other detail photos of the rifle itself were important to making an assessment.
I agree-- it's also a shame about the drive-by "how much is this worth?" Threads, then they vanish, never to be seen again.
FWIW @WDL0209 I hope you'll stick around and continue to participate. This is the best place for serious discussion on the net and some of the most knowledgeable collectors in the German hobby.
I appreciate that, I seriously enjoy the hobby and learning the history to an almost obsessive level. I find it all so interesting. I just need to get more German firearms, I have quite a few mausers in 8mm, but only 3 are German. Sucks that they have such a premium, and only for good reason sometimes. My next gun I want is a gewehr 98, as I've got the k98a and a g88. Start from the beginning and work my way down the line. Thanks again Chrisftk.
AndyB
Senior Member
The unit could be early even imperial era, even there is a 1920 so its hard to believe a police unit, more real its Sanitaets Abteilung nr.4, Fuhrpark weapon nr.xx even similar marked in Reichswehr.
In 1932 was located the unit in area of Dresden.
4. Sanitätsabteilung Dresden
In 1932 was located the unit in area of Dresden.
4. Sanitätsabteilung Dresden
Super interesting, thank you. It could really go both ways, you see this style of police marking pretty often, but usually accompanied by a really nice refurbish, a luxury this rifle appears to have missed as it still wears it's original WW1 stock and is numbers matching. Based on the database of Weimar police markings it aligns with the schutzpolizei in Aurich, but the F is what's throwing me for a loop. Your explanation is very plausible too. I'll continue to read into it. Appreciate the help.
Do you have a resource you used to research German unit markings that are non police further? A lot of k98as went into Weimar police service and I'm still leaning more towards that, but would be very interested in reading into it farther to see if there are other options for what it could mean.
My apologies for being gruff, more out of frustration than hostility, - Chris is here to moderate my frustration fueled negativity...
**Real questions, you may have answered these but I didn't catch these facts.
#1 does the stock match and does it carry the property stamp (1920 - this is important); is the stock factory - "factory" matching - or Republic replaced (any signs of Republican era replacement like postwar acceptance); does the right receiver carry republican era marking or acceptance, how is the barrel marked (is it factory or Republic).
#2 This is a complex subject to interpret, not a straight forward Imperial 98a, these are far more complex than an Imperial rifle,- the bolt is not period German - which only confuses the discussion when pictures are inadequate or focused upon a clearly non-original component.
It would also help to see the RR and know the suffix, you can keep the serial secret but questions without the RR (where a range could be guessed at -I might have this rifle on file or a close match for comparison) or property markings are pointless, actually impossible. (if the receiver has the property stamp, so should the stock - many things matter, but the bolt was known on the first post)
**Real questions, you may have answered these but I didn't catch these facts.
#1 does the stock match and does it carry the property stamp (1920 - this is important); is the stock factory - "factory" matching - or Republic replaced (any signs of Republican era replacement like postwar acceptance); does the right receiver carry republican era marking or acceptance, how is the barrel marked (is it factory or Republic).
#2 This is a complex subject to interpret, not a straight forward Imperial 98a, these are far more complex than an Imperial rifle,- the bolt is not period German - which only confuses the discussion when pictures are inadequate or focused upon a clearly non-original component.
It would also help to see the RR and know the suffix, you can keep the serial secret but questions without the RR (where a range could be guessed at -I might have this rifle on file or a close match for comparison) or property markings are pointless, actually impossible. (if the receiver has the property stamp, so should the stock - many things matter, but the bolt was known on the first post)
Hi Loewe. I've pretty much come to a conclusion regarding the origin of the bolt through other research. But I'm still willing to send pictures when I get a chance (the correct ones this time). The one factor I can answer for certain right now is that the stock is both matching to the rifle, and carries the 1920 property stamp. The 1920 stamp on the stock can be seen in one of the crappy photos I posted. Since you're curious and I am as well, I'll get all the pictures you need tomorrow. It takes a bit cause I have to compress them a bit to post them here so it'll take me a bit. Chrisftk gave me a rundown of all the right areas to photograph so I'll get all of that for you tomorrow. Thanks again.
William.
Hello
Hello Loewe,
Attached should be enough pictures of the rifle for you to get what info you need. As well as all parts all parts serials and any other stamps/trenchart/markings I found may be worth photographing. Should these additional photos not be sufficient please let me know. I had to downsize and compress every photo to allow posting, let me know if this results in any issues. A couple additional items of note. The stock packs finger grooves which aligns with the 1915 build date of the rifle. And the magazine follower does lock the bolt open, which as I understand is not something the k98as ever did until a refurb was done post 1920? Not sure if there's any credibility to that, but it does certainly lock the bolt. Also most of the German acceptance markings on the stock are there, but completely illegible. You may be able to make more sense of them than I can.
Attachments
Posted a bunch of new pictures per request of Loewe using your recommendations. Figured you may be interested as well.
These are very fine angles, I doubt you missed something important... The exact definition of the unit I would have to access my library, but probably police of one fashion or another, - Germany had police forces that would boggle the mind prior to 9/11, today the early German republic look modest in its creating police variations, but at the time seemed excessive (they had train robbers to river pirates).
Besides the bolt it is a fine example, some graffiti but fairly modest to many from this period, barrel is original (Police had their own ordnance facilities and it is common to see their work, especially barrel replacement (again I assume this is police) but it certainly is lacking typical police alterations - they typically have a number of modifications or alterations as the police were very busy 1919-1933... I will check the unit marking in books when I get a chance but there is a good chance it isn't because it is so original to its original state- only TD added to an otherwise factory stock- might look to the disc for whom added it, originally this rifle had neither grips or the TD, this is a fact... far too early for either)
Honestly I have doubts this is police but I would have to refer to books in this regard as my specialty is more on the rifles, trends, mfg's and historical context than unit markings.
*** I really didn't think this rifle very interesting, but is rather exceptional (the original stock especially), makes one wonder how many other quality examples are discounted by poor initial pictures, - nice rifle!
Besides the bolt it is a fine example, some graffiti but fairly modest to many from this period, barrel is original (Police had their own ordnance facilities and it is common to see their work, especially barrel replacement (again I assume this is police) but it certainly is lacking typical police alterations - they typically have a number of modifications or alterations as the police were very busy 1919-1933... I will check the unit marking in books when I get a chance but there is a good chance it isn't because it is so original to its original state- only TD added to an otherwise factory stock- might look to the disc for whom added it, originally this rifle had neither grips or the TD, this is a fact... far too early for either)
Honestly I have doubts this is police but I would have to refer to books in this regard as my specialty is more on the rifles, trends, mfg's and historical context than unit markings.
*** I really didn't think this rifle very interesting, but is rather exceptional (the original stock especially), makes one wonder how many other quality examples are discounted by poor initial pictures, - nice rifle!
Very interesting, thank you. I have searched a lot for information regarding the unit marking and I really want to say it's a police marking. But the lack of extensive police refurb is very interesting and like you said, makes it seem non police used. Please tell me if you find something in your library. Thank you much Loewe.
Strange and interesting information. Thanks!
Whether it's police or not it is still very interesting. I haven't seen any police markings that quite align with the one on this rifle, and it lacks a lot of the refurbishment seen with police rifles, though there are pictures of Weimar police with k98as with original non finger grooves stocks. I frankly am leaning more towards the Sanitäts Fahrpersonel marking as it nearly perfectly aligns with how it's numbered. Just the 1 being a 4 instead on the rifle. And the item 13 bit. Do your resources have anything about this part of the German military? When researching I've found that sanitäts troops were issued k98a rifles. The attached photo further supports this rifles history. What I'm wondering is what is the Fahrpersonel of the sanitäts?
