Loewe 1890 6161e - Gewehr 1888

[Fal Grunt]

While purchased in 2023, this is the first rifle of 2024, and I thought it was an interesting rifle. Though, I am a mortified at posting this when compared to Absolut's Trials rifle! I picked this one up cheap on gunbroker with the intention of parting it out, but after getting it, I am a bit hesitant. It is mostly matching, the bands are non-matching, but both the same serial (27). The firing pin assembly is also mis matched, but again, matching to itself (39). The bolt is non - matching, but the original serial lined out and new numbers applied. Possibly during a rework marked on the butt plate? The rifle appears to be a war bond rifle, with a clipped firing pin, but the most interesting feature is the MISSING BARREL!!! When I got the rifle, it appeared to have not been taken apart for a lengthy period of time. Sure enough, the barrel was sawn off directly in front of the receiver. An SBR oh no! I wonder if this was a bond rifle that had it's barrel plugged and the barrel was damaged in the attempt of removing it. I can't fathom the logic of cutting the barrel off, who knows what the idea was there.

The problem with being a collector, as well as a business, is I often get product in that I don't want to let go! In this case I thought I would document it, if nothing else it serves as a data point. I'll have to sleep on parting it out, I'm not sure I can bring my self to do it, being that the stock and the majority of the rifle matches.

 

[Fal Grunt]

2nd batch

 

[Cyrano4747]

LL&Co was always my favorite Gew88 producer. Neat rifle even with the clipped barrel.

That got me thinking, what is the status of a pre-1898 firearm and SBR stuff?

 

[Fal Grunt]

LL&Co was always my favorite Gew88 producer. Neat rifle even with the clipped barrel.

That got me thinking, what is the status of a pre-1898 firearm and SBR stuff?

This is one of the ATF's more idiotic notions. Any pre 1898 is an antique and not a firearm. It is therefore not under the ATF's purview. They have no legal authority to regulate it. However, if you cut the barrel of an antique below 16" (18" for a shotgun), it magically becomes a firearm, and under their purview. Under the same logic, "suppressors" are not regulated when used in combination with an antique, however, like airgun suppressors, the ATF considers under their jurisdiction and a NFA item.

The same notion applies to all the 01's illegally manufacturing firearms by "repair" work. The ATF cannot tell you how to "manufacture" the firearm through their paper work bureaucracy, they just know that you have. They also can't explain how repairing a 100 year old gun, by replacing a missing part, is manufacturing a new firearm.

If I had the money and the legal backing I would sue the ATF over this and a myriad of items. It is illegal for me to export Gewehr 88 parts, because the federal government doesn't know what they are. While free, I have to submit a technical application to have them classified by the Bureau of Industry and Security, so that they have a Commercial Control List category, so that they can tell me if I can export them or not. Not surprisingly the Bureau of Industry and Security has different definitions of what a firearm "is", and what an antique "is".

If you can't tell, this is a "hot button" issue for me

 

[chrisftk]

n this case I thought I would document it, if nothing else it serves as a data point. I'll have to sleep on parting it out, I'm not sure I can bring my self to do it, being that the stock and the majority of the rifle matches.

Thank you for taking the time to share this. It's definitely interesting.

In my opinion the bolt was renumbered at Köln (4).. mismatched bands are pretty indicative of Depot work on these as well; most of the time they didn't really care to renumber them. It's a neat rifle it's own merits I'd suggest you hold on to it and I would advise against partying without since it's Depot matching. It's good representation of wartime rework on one of these.

The barrel is a bit of a puzzle I would guess against Bond rifle because the bolt matches (usually they don't), but it's possible I suppose. I almost wonder if someone just demilitarized it or maybe it was hung at a VFW or something and the removal of the barrel was their way of making it safe combined with the clipped pin.. The good news is with the barrel jacket it's kind of hard to tell that the barrel has been removed

Either way you should hold on to it please don't part it out..

 

[heavy_mech]

I also thought about keeping it for a few reasons. I wonder if you could even find a barrel in the wild?

 

[heavy_mech]

Steering this thread right off the cliff... Does anyone know why Louis Levy changed his name to Ludwig Loewe?

 

[chrisftk]

Steering this thread right off the cliff... Does anyone know why Louis Levy changed his name to Ludwig Loewe?

Louis sounds too French and Loewe = Lion; sounds a lot more intimidating than Levy! (Wild guess! Lol)

John Wayne sounded way better than Marion Morrison!

 

[heavy_mech]

Louis sounds too French and Loewe = Lion; sounds a lot more intimidating than Levy! (Wild guess! Lol)

John Wayne sounded way better than Marion Morrison!

Yeah, that sounds too easy Chris. I know almost every celeb has a different (cooler) name. Thought maybe there was a bit more intrigue or some back story.

Was he interesting enough to have a book written about him? Or just some merchant who happened to make guns we think are neat? Sort of the Gustav Genschow of his time?

 

[chrisftk]

Yeah, that sounds too easy Chris. I know almost every celeb has a different (cooler) name. Thought maybe there was a bit more intrigue or some back story.

Was he interesting enough to have a book written about him? Or just some merchant who happened to make guns we think are neat? Sort of the Gustav Genschow of his time?

I have not read it, but this did come up in my search

Heidi Zogbaum Ludwig Loewe, the Forgotten Pioneer Industr (Hardback) (UK IMPORT) 9783631904886 | eBay

Author: Heidi Zogbaum. Title: Ludwig Loewe, the Forgotten Pioneer Industrialist of Imperial Berlin. Format: Hardback. Topic: Military History. sparse information on him and his work remains. His “Jewish enterprise” was expropriated.

www.ebay.com

Looks interesting. I may buy a copy.

I would imagine there are a few German language books as well but being that this one is English, maybe low-hanging fruit.

 

[Fal Grunt]

I have to ask because I have never heard of this, the whole Loewe family changed their names? Wasn't Ludwig's brother Isidor, technical director at Vickers for a period of time. His name was Loewe as well. Another one of the family... brother as well, Sigmund?, had some other business concern, but I thought he was a Loewe as well.

 

[chrisftk]

I have to ask because I have never heard of this, the whole Loewe family changed their names? Wasn't Ludwig's brother Isidor, technical director at Vickers for a period of time. His name was Loewe as well. Another one of the family... brother as well, Sigmund?, had some other business concern, but I thought he was a Loewe as well.

It wouldn't surprise me the whole family changed their name. From what I've seen Jewish families in Germany would sometimes pick more German sounding last names to avoid any potential bias.

 

[Loewe]

Great discovery! For one it is the first e-block of 1890 recorded, while there was little doubt e-blocks exist this is the first seen. I added it tothe research thread and linked it here. Love the Loewe made bolt, very distinctive! Too bad it doesn't match, these are hard to find loose.

The RR is interesting too, only a few have the C/RC after the first position. Which usually different than typical.

Isidor was the main bigcheese of Loewe's history, Ludwig was a politician, which helps when you need banker friends... Loewe was backed by bankers, Jewish ones mostly, at least at first, but Isidor made the company great and had a great many contacts in the US. One brother managed Vickers, name escapes me off-hand but the Collector Grade book on the subject goes into this colorful character!

 

[PrayingMantis]

Thanks for posting the photos! Even with no barrel it's very helpful, as Paul mentioned; i added it to the reference thread!

For the record, my vote is to keep it together.

 

[Fal Grunt]

Glad it was of interest.

I'll hold on to this one and put a barrel in it when I get a chance.