Third Party Press

KS4349, 1901 Spandau Mauser 7372, located in Pretoria, South Africa

Having found this rifle listed in the Mauser directory I have decided to add some details about it.

I have in 1992 obtained this ex Herero War rifle from an uncle of mine, who bough it, and 100 rounds of ammunition, for 10 Pounds from the Union Defense Force.

I am the current custodian of this rifle, based in Pretoria, South Africa, with the aim of passing it on to my son.

20210429_080720.jpg

The rifle is complete with matching numbers on all fittings and screws, but I need a cleaning rod for it.
20210502_162436 crop.jpg

Manufacturers detail and date, Spitzer barrel indication

20210502_163040 (1)crop.jpg

Showing the rifle number and the UDF In Service and Out of Service markings.



ks crop.jpg
K.S. Tag and Spitzer barrel indication.

The barrel is clean and I frequently shoot the rifle with hand loaded ammunition, it still shoots to point of aim.
 
Looks like a great Schutztruppe model Gew98 that stayed relatively untouched aside from the added UDF markings. Bravo and I'm glad you are keeping it in the family. It's an heirloom worth holding onto!

You certainly wouldn't hurt everyone's feelings if you added a few more pictures :)
 
I concur, an excellent Schutztruppe that i would love to see more photos of. Any numbers of markings, on any part, that you can photograph would be helpful.

I'll add it to the reference!
 
Thanks for the kind words

I will indeed add more images

I have just returned from the USA and, given the extreme crime in South Africa, I always hand my firearms in for safe storage with an arms dealer, so I will fetch them and do some photos

Amongst my firearms is my wing shooting gun, a very early Winchester 21, number 306, with the Violent Proof barrels and an ex Boer War, Lee Enfield Mk1 Made in 1897.
 
Amazing rifle, probably my grail gun.

After spending half a year on the southern African continent and three weeks in Namibia. I’ve been wanting a colonial Gew 98.

Thanks for sharing.
 
Great looking Schutztruppegewehr 98. It's in pretty good condition too. I keep a catalog of the firearms used by the Schutztruppe. I have this rifle's information in my catalog but I will have to change the description a little to add the UDF part.
 
What makes the UDF markings interesting is that this rifle was used against the UDF by the KS in the 1914 campaign and some of these rifles were captured and used against the KS by the UDF troops.

Many of the UDF troops have used the Spanish 7x57 Mausers in the Second Boer war and due to a shortage of Lee Enfields the UDF in DSWA used many Portuguese Mausers in 6.5x58.


Also refer to this:
 
Most Schutztruppe rifles that survive today are worn to the bone, this is an excellent example and one I'd definitely love to see more detailed pics of. The UDF provenance has probably saved it from getting chopped up and sporterized. And the fact it is staying in the family is the cherry on top to this rifle's story. Congrats on owning such a nice example and thanks for sharing it with us!
 
Wow, now this is something you don't see every day, nor hear about often. A very interesting rifle and in great condition, thanks for sharing.

I believe I read or saw that Paul von Lettow-Vorbeck's guerilla operation in Africa during the entirety of WW1 would explain why so few arms exists. If I'm not mistaken, many were stripped for parts to keep as many as possible in service, and when ammunition ran out they discarded them for captured arms.
 
Where did the K.S. Mausers go?

This is my opinion, informed by some research but most probably quite wide of the truth.

According to the book: Urgent Imperial Service - South African Forces in German South West Africa 1914-1915, D L'Ange, Ashanti 1991, ISBN 1 874800227.

The Germans were centered at Tsumeb

1705236035680.png

Here is L'Ange's description from the point of view of the UDF prisoners of were that were held at Tsumeb:

"On June 22 Grant was told to vacate the room in which he had been living in the hotel at Tsumeb as it was wanted for Colonel Franke, who was moving his headquarters to Tsumeb. Grant was accommodated in a little wood-and-iron cottage beside the prison compound.

The approach of the Union forces was now producing increasingly visible effects on Tsumeb. The prisoners saw huge quantities of stores and weapons being destroyed or hauled away.

‘Wagonloads have been going all day and for the greater part of the night,’ Grant wrote on July 3. One of the things destroyed was the yellow Taube aircraft that the prisoners had seen at the airstrip when they had been taken to work there. The prisoners had always made a point of doing as little work as possible on such occasions, and now the guards made even less effort than before to get them to work.

Artillery pieces and other weapons were being dumped in the deep lake near Tsumeb, the Osikotosee. Grant says some materials were being put in the copper mine, but he may have been confused with the dumping in the lake."


The surrender of the German forces to the UDF at Khorab is described in this post:

Khorab, a farm oasis 2.6 km north of Otavi, Namibia, hosts a monument commemorating negotiations between South African and German troops fighting in World War I. These led to the surrender of around 4,000 German soldiers in what was known as the Treaty of Khorab. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khorab_Memorial retrieved on 14 January 2024)

So there seems to have been several thousand Mausers in the Tsumeb area that became extra to requirements.

The previous image that I have posted of the discovery of many rusted rifles at Tsumeb, some 40 miles from the point of surrender, could account for a number of them.

1705233992967.png
Geographic dispersion of the Khorab memorial, Tsumeb and the Ojikoto Lake.
Distances from the Khorab point of surrender to Tsumeb, 40 miles, Tsumeb to lake Otjikoto, 12 miles.

Then there is the age old custom of troops taking trophies home and we can assume that a few Mausers found their way back to South Africa. ( The UDF troops were demobilized at Tsumeb and had to find their way home After a three year journey a relative got home to Carolina, a distance of some 1500 miles from Tsumeb, with his horse and the most beautiful Mauser rifle.)

1705232542955.png

According to L'Ange: "Almost everybody brought back a souvenir of some kind - a German Mauser or bayonet or a piece of shrapnel that had nearly killed its present custodian, a fragment from a mine or a signboard in German."

The Mauser, as the weapon of choice in the Second Boer war, is a mythical weapon in the South African memory. The Boer forces used the Spanish Mauser in 7x57mm caliber, as used against the US forces at San Juan and Kettle hill. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7×57mm_Mauser#Military_use retrieved 14 on January 2024)

During the Second Boer War the war slogan was "With God and the Mauser", there even was a flaky "prophet" Seer van Rensburg, who foresaw the Germans coming to the Boer forces aid with brand new Mausers via Luderitzcbucht! (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siener_van_Rensburg retrieved on 14 January 2024) Thus the possession of a Mauser was a matter of great prestige and a very handy companion when hunting.

So far we have many German arms surrendered to the UDF but there were there attempts to hide arms and equipment, including the dumping of materiel into the Otjikoto lake.

"The lake still bears a large quantity of arms and ammunition, left by the German troops before capitulating to the South African superiority in 1915. As the lake is open to diving clubs some of the weapons have been recovered and after careful restoration can be seen at the Tsumeb Museum."
(https://www.info-namibia.com/activities-and-places-of-interest/otavi/lake-otjikoto#:~:text=The lake still bears a, seen at the Tsumeb Museum. retrieved on 14 January 2024)

After the Frist World War surplus Mausers, that fell into the use of the UDF, were sold of to civilians, each rifle, with 100 rounds of ammunition, for 10 Pounds.

Combined with the souvenirs that the troops took home we now have a number of Mausers in private ownership.

Then came the Second World War and there is a reasonably good overview of the applicable Emergency Measures given here: (The Smuts Government’s justification of the emergency regulations and the impact thereof on the Ossewa-Brandwag, 1939 to 1945, Anna La Grange1 North-West University, Scientia Militaria, South African Journal of Military Studies, Vol 4S, Nr 2, 2020. https://www.ajol.info/index.php/smsajms/article/view/230364 retrieved on 14 January 2024)

The salient point of these Emergency Regulations is the following:
"A further embodiment of the emergency regulations was to claim all private firearms under Proclamation 139 of 1940. The motivation behind this was possibly to prevent an armed uprising. Nevertheless, the Smuts government maintained that the motivation behind this was that the government needed the weapons in the war against Germany. By August 1940, about 88 000 firearms had already been confiscated. Many more would follow, as the war would last until 1945."

Thus many, but not all, of the privately owned Mausers were confiscated, the fact that I have a 1901 KS Mauser as well as a 1897 Lee Enfield proves this point, but both of these were in possession of farmers in remote areas or, as in the case of the Lee Enfield, my late grandmother was notified to surrender the rifle or a policeman would be sent to confiscate it, she relied : " I have the rife, I also have 18 rounds of ammunition, send 19 policemen." ( The Mauser that was carried by horse to Carolina, as described above, was lost during this process.)

Many of these Mausers remained in DSWA/Namibia but were sporterised and used for hunting and sports shooting, my late Windhoek based father in law had such a rifle.

So there could be good reason for the limited number of K.S Mausers in circulation and that makes it all the more important to preserve these old war horses and to regularly shoot them.

This is only my opinion, I may be totally wrong!
 

Attachments

  • 1705232063082.png
    1705232063082.png
    114.4 KB · Views: 2
Last edited:
Where did the K.S. Mausers go?

This is my opinion, informed by some research but most probably quite wide of the truth.

According to the book: Urgent Imperial Service - South African Forces in German South West Africa 1914-1915, D L'Ange, Ashanti 1991, ISBN 1 874800227.

The Germans were centered at Tsumeb

View attachment 378346

Here is L'Ange's description from the point of view of the UDF prisoners of were that were held at Tsumeb:

"On June 22 Grant was told to vacate the room in which he had been living in the hotel at Tsumeb as it was wanted for Colonel Franke, who was moving his headquarters to Tsumeb. Grant was accommodated in a little wood-and-iron cottage beside the prison compound.

The approach of the Union forces was now producing increasingly visible effects on Tsumeb. The prisoners saw huge quantities of stores and weapons being destroyed or hauled away.

‘Wagonloads have been going all day and for the greater part of the night,’ Grant wrote on July 3. One of the things destroyed was the yellow Taube aircraft that the prisoners had seen at the airstrip when they had been taken to work there. The prisoners had always made a point of doing as little work as possible on such occasions, and now the guards made even less effort than before to get them to work.

Artillery pieces and other weapons were being dumped in the deep lake near Tsumeb, the Osikotosee. Grant says some materials were being put in the copper mine, but he may have been confused with the dumping in the lake."


The surrender of the German forces to the UDF at Khorab is described in this post:

Khorab, a farm oasis 2.6 km north of Otavi, Namibia, hosts a monument commemorating negotiations between South African and German troops fighting in World War I. These led to the surrender of around 4,000 German soldiers in what was known as the Treaty of Khorab. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khorab_Memorial retrieved on 14 January 2024)

So there seems to have been several thousand Mausers in the Tsumeb area that became extra to requirements.

The previous image that I have posted of the discovery of many rusted rifles at Tsumeb, some 40 miles from the point of surrender, could account for a number of them.

View attachment 378345
Geographic dispersion of the Khorab memorial, Tsumeb and the Ojikoto Lake.
Distances from the Khorab point of surrender to Tsumeb, 40 miles, Tsumeb to lake Otjikoto, 12 miles.

Then there is the age old custom of troops taking trophies home and we can assume that a few Mausers found their way back to South Africa. ( The UDF troops were demobilized at Tsumeb and had to find their way home After a three year journey a relative got home to Carolina, a distance of some 1500 miles from Tsumeb, with his horse and the most beautiful Mauser rifle.)

View attachment 378344

According to L'Ange: "Almost everybody brought back a souvenir of some kind - a German Mauser or bayonet or a piece of shrapnel that had nearly killed its present custodian, a fragment from a mine or a signboard in German."

The Mauser, as the weapon of choice in the Second Boer war, is a mythical weapon in the South African memory. The Boer forces used the Spanish Mauser in 7x57mm caliber, as used against the US forces at San Juan and Kettle hill. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7×57mm_Mauser#Military_use retrieved 14 on January 2024)

During the Second Boer War the war slogan was "With God and the Mauser", there even was a flaky "prophet" Seer van Rensburg, who foresaw the Germans coming to the Boer forces aid with brand new Mausers via Luderitzcbucht! (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siener_van_Rensburg retrieved on 14 January 2024) Thus the possession of a Mauser was a matter of great prestige and a very handy companion when hunting.

So far we have many German arms surrendered to the UDF but there were there attempts to hide arms and equipment, including the dumping of materiel into the Otjikoto lake.

"The lake still bears a large quantity of arms and ammunition, left by the German troops before capitulating to the South African superiority in 1915. As the lake is open to diving clubs some of the weapons have been recovered and after careful restoration can be seen at the Tsumeb Museum."
(https://www.info-namibia.com/activities-and-places-of-interest/otavi/lake-otjikoto#:~:text=The lake still bears a, seen at the Tsumeb Museum. retrieved on 14 January 2024)

After the Frist World War surplus Mausers, that fell into the use of the UDF, were sold of to civilians, each rifle, with 100 rounds of ammunition, for 10 Pounds.

Combined with the souvenirs that the troops took home we now have a number of Mausers in private ownership.

Then came the Second World War and there is a reasonably good overview of the applicable Emergency Measures given here: (The Smuts Government’s justification of the emergency regulations and the impact thereof on the Ossewa-Brandwag, 1939 to 1945, Anna La Grange1 North-West University, Scientia Militaria, South African Journal of Military Studies, Vol 4S, Nr 2, 2020. https://www.ajol.info/index.php/smsajms/article/view/230364 retrieved on 14 January 2024)

The salient point of these Emergency Regulations is the following:
"A further embodiment of the emergency regulations was to claim all private firearms under Proclamation 139 of 1940. The motivation behind this was possibly to prevent an armed uprising. Nevertheless, the Smuts government maintained that the motivation behind this was that the government needed the weapons in the war against Germany. By August 1940, about 88 000 firearms had already been confiscated. Many more would follow, as the war would last until 1945."

Thus many, but not all, of the privately owned Mausers were confiscated, the fact that I have a 1901 KS Mauser as well as a 1897 Lee Enfield proves this point, but both of these were in possession of farmers in remote areas or, as in the case of the Lee Enfield, my late grandmother was notified to surrender the rifle or a policeman would be sent to confiscate it, she relied : " I have the rife, I also have 18 rounds of ammunition, send 19 policemen." ( The Mauser that was carried by horse to Carolina, as described above, was lost during this process.)

Many of these Mausers remained in DSWA/Namibia but were sporterised and used for hunting and sports shooting, my late Windhoek based father in law had such a rifle.

So there could be good reason for the limited number of K.S Mausers in circulation and that makes it all the more important to preserve these old war horses and to regularly shoot them.

This is only my opinion, I may be totally wrong!
Here is a Combination from my own research and a 1913 inventory from the African colonies.

Small arms of the Schutztruppe and Polizeitruppe by colony. Pre-WWI and during WWI.
German SouthWest Africa: Schutztruppe
G. 71: 461 B. 71: 72 K. 71: - G. 71-84: -
Gew 88: - Gew 91:- Kar 88: 1
Kar.98 Kav98, Art98, 1st var, 2nd mod98:
292 (266)*
Kar98a: 195
Reg Gew 98: 1,560**
Sch Gew 98: 10,069***

*On 1 October 1913 the Schutztruppe in German SouthWest Africa reported 72 artillery and 220 M98 cavalry carbines in stock, of which 69 and 197 respectively were already useless.

** In October 1913 there were 1,560 M98 old pattern rifles.
***10,069 Schutztruppengewehr 98 there, of which exactly two thirds were located in the two artillery depots of the province. One night in June of 1915 Schirrmeister Keplin burned 2,000,000 rounds of ammunition and 8,000 rifles. So they wouldn't fall into the enemy's hands.

German SouthWest Africa: Landespolizei
G. 71: 431(8) B. 71: 33 K. 71: 13 G. 71-84: 34(1)
Gew 88: 26 Gew 91:- Kar 88: 117
Kar.98 Kav98: 100 Art98: 47 1st var: 17 2nd mod98: 646
Kar98a:-
Reg Gew 98:
20
Sch Gew 98: 497

The Landespolizei had issued revolver M/79 and M/83 and later Roth-Sauer pistols and the Parabellum. The main weapon were rifles and carbines.
These were marked with L.P. and a number. In 10/1912 were issued: 251 revolver M/83 The inventory was: 199 M/83 and 23 M/79. In 1912, there were 494 Reichsrevolvers, 301 Roth-Sauers and 442 P08s in the inventory of the LPDSWA

German East Africa: Schutztruppe
G. 71: - B. 71: 5,065* K. 71: 701(1) G. 71-84: 1
Gew 88: - Gew 91: 9 Kar 88: 54
Kar.98 Kav98, Art Kar 98, 1st var & 2nd mod98:-
Kar98a:
909
Gew 98: 406(182)

*The report speaks of 71 rifles but all other documents clearly shows these were Jägerbüchse, 3,588 with the troops. The rest in storage.

After the debacle of the landings at Tanga on 4th and 5th November 1914, Indian Expeditionary Force ‘B’ steamed away leaving on the beach or nearby:

455 SMLE
Eight serviceable machine guns plus others that could be cannibalised for parts (the Royal Navy had forbidden the evacuation of machine guns to avoid small-boat damage).
Over 500,000 small arms rounds.
Telegraph equipment, greatcoats, blankets and uniforms.
The substantial officers’ mess stocks of food and wine brought by the 2nd Battalion the Loyal North Lancashire Regiment from India (and doubtless similar stocks brought by other regiments).

Rubens delivered supplies on April 14th 1915.
1,800 Mauser rifles.
4,500,000 rifle and machine gun rounds. Two 6-centimetre guns.
Four machine guns.
1,000 rounds of 10.5-centimetre (4.1-inch) naval gun ammunition.
500 rounds of 8.8-centimetre naval gun ammunition.
3,000 rounds of 6-centimetre gun ammunition.
3,000 rounds of 3.7-centimetre gun ammunition.
One ton of Trinitroanysol explosive.
200 tents.
Telegraph and telephone material, medical supplies, machine tools, cutting torches, military clothing, provisions and many other minor items.
Luxury items such as sweets and also a quantity of medals for von Lettow-Vorbeck to distribute and award (One hundred first class Iron Crosses with recommendations for von Lettow-Vorbeck, Schnee and Looff, one thousand second class Iron Crosses for members of the Konigsberg crew and the Schutztruppe and 2,425 Kriegerverdienstmedaille of various classes for the askaris).

Marie delivered supplies on March 16th 1916.
Four modern 10.5-centimetre Howitzers.
Two 7.5-centimetre Mountain Guns.
2,000 Kar.98a
Six machine guns with telescopic sights.
3,000,000 rounds of assorted ammunition.
200 kilograms of quinine (to fight the ever-present malaria).
50,000 pre-packed porter loads containing uniforms, food, equipment, medical supplies, and comforts such as sweets.
A quantity of decorations and military awards. These were particularly useful to von Lettow for raising morale and maintaining esprit de corps within the Schutztruppe.

After the Portuguese withdrawal from Newala, DOA, in late November 1916 the following were left behind in good order.

four new 7.6-centimetre mountain guns with ammunition.
seven machine guns and a quantity of rifles.
100,000 rounds of rifle and machine gun ammunition.
two Fiat cars.
a wireless station.
45 supply carts with horses and mules.
An unknown tonnage of provisions and medical supplies.

After the German invasion of Portuguese East Africa in December 1917 and until the end of the war in November the following year the Schutztruppe experienced few difficulties in seizing Portuguese garrison stocks of weapons and supplies, whenever these were needed. The rolls of trading cloth taken from these garrison posts were traded with local Africans for food, and the Africans were appreciative of this gesture as the Portuguese tended to commandeer what they wanted without payment.

German East Africa: Polizeitruppe
G. 71: - B. 71: 5,014* (343) K. 71: 300 G. 71-84: -
Gew 88: - Gew 91:
- Kar 88: -
Kar.98 Kar.98 Kav98, Art Kar 98, 1st var & 2nd mod98:- 100**
Kar98a: 300
Gew 98: 356

* 1,290 of these adapted, that is with an extractor; 20 of the unusable guns were of this type.
** No model given; they could also have been Kar98a carbines.

Kamerun: Schutztruppe
G. 71: - B. 71: 1,990 K. 71: 300 G. 71-84: -
Gew 88: - Gew 91: - Kar 88: -
Kar.98 Kar.98 Kav98, Art Kar 98, 1st var & 2nd mod98:-
Kar98a:
1,645
Gew 98: 380

Kamerun: Polizeitruppe
G. 71: - B. 71: 1,550 K. 71: 76 G. 71-84: -
Gew 88: - Gew 91:
- Kar 88: -
Kar.98 Kar.98 Kav98, Art Kar 98, 1st var & 2nd mod98:-
Kar98a:
1,236
Gew 98: -

Togo:
Polizeitruppe
G. 71: - B. 71: 1,624 K. 71: 238(8) G. 71-84: -
Gew 88: - Gew 91:
- Kar 88: 1
Kar.98 Kar.98 Kav98, Art Kar 98, 1st var & 2nd mod98:-17
Kar98a: 4
Gew 98: 9

Here is the small firearms of the Imperial Overseas Forces I have cataloged.
 
Last edited:
Thank you MichaeWC

This is very valuable information.

From this quote: 10,069 Schutztruppengewehr 98 there, of which exactly two thirds were located in the two artillery depots of the province. One night in June of 1915 Schirrmeister Keplin burned 2,000,000 rounds of ammunition and 8,000 rifles. So they wouldn't fall into the enemy's hands.

To my mind this could explain the rifles recently unearthed in Tsumeb, Namibia

This leaves some 2000 Schutztruppengewehr 98 that have found their way either into the UDF or private ownership, or private ownership via the UDF sales.

The firearms confiscation of private firearms during the Second World War could have accounted for a number of these.

What is an informed estimate of the number of Schutztruppengewehr 98s that are still circulating?

As a member of the Pretoria Arms and Ammunition Association I am aware of one more KS98 amongst the members but will try and find how many are owned or known of.
 
Thank you MichaeWC

This is very valuable information.

From this quote: 10,069 Schutztruppengewehr 98 there, of which exactly two thirds were located in the two artillery depots of the province. One night in June of 1915 Schirrmeister Keplin burned 2,000,000 rounds of ammunition and 8,000 rifles. So they wouldn't fall into the enemy's hands.

To my mind this could explain the rifles recently unearthed in Tsumeb, Namibia

This leaves some 2000 Schutztruppengewehr 98 that have found their way either into the UDF or private ownership, or private ownership via the UDF sales.

The firearms confiscation of private firearms during the Second World War could have accounted for a number of these.

What is an informed estimate of the number of Schutztruppengewehr 98s that are still circulating?

As a member of the Pretoria Arms and Ammunition Association I am aware of one more KS98 amongst the members but will try and find how many are owned or known of.
I've been trying to figure this out for about seven years now. My conclusion is the same as yours. I kinda believe there be as many as 2,100 surviving examples. I say that because The Landespolizei had 497. I'm not entirely sure how many of those 497 survive to this very day. All of the Schutztruppegewehr 98 that survive used by the Landespolizei are part of the C block. Here is four photos of mine Schutztruppengewehr 98 used by the Landespolizei. Mine was used as a target rifle later in life.
FB_IMG_1705333792367.jpg
FB_IMG_1705333338680.jpg
FB_IMG_1705333348917.jpg
FB_IMG_1705333358657.jpg
In 1914 Spandau started working on the second version of Schutztruppengewehr 98. I'm not sure how many were built but it probably wasn't much. I'm kind of believing that the project was abandoned after war was declared. I do know of one.
FB_IMG_1705330627421.jpg
FB_IMG_1705330634349.jpg
Photos from Thies Militaria Auctions, LLC Kirchheim unter Teck, Germany
1914/Spandau/10/? ( In 1914 some new Schutztruppegewehr 1898 were manufactured with bolt handles of the cyclist rifle. It is not known how many of these rifles were manufactured or if any made there way to the African colonies.)
 
What a lovely old machine.

Like all period Mausers that had been rebarreled from .318 to. 323 inch it has the previous barrel dimensions on the receiver and the Spitzer S on the new barrel as well as the on the LP tag

There is just something very special about taking these exceptional rifles to the range and ringing some steel plates
 
What a lovely old machine.

Like all period Mausers that had been rebarreled from .318 to. 323 inch it has the previous barrel dimensions on the receiver and the Spitzer S on the new barrel as well as the on the LP tag

There is just something very special about taking these exceptional rifles to the range and ringing some steel plates
The German military never used a .318 barrel . Starting in 1896 1/2 the German military started to go from the original .3208 barrel to .323 . So they did not rebarrel anything from a nonexistent .318 to .323 . All Gew-98 rifles started out with a .323 barrel . All the S means is the rifle is cleared to fire S ammo . Yes they did use the .3188 dia P-88 ammo in the early Gew-98 rifles . P-88 ammo and S ammo were used together for a while .
 

Military Rifle Journal
Back
Top