kar 98a data sheets

[damiencain]

Hi there, I have mostly matching kar 98az I picked up recently. Not sure if anyone collects data sheets on these. It's a 98az with a 1915 erfurt stamp and a 1920 restamp. Matching except for the bolt. Nice shape overall. Thank you!

 

[Loewe]

Welcome to the forum, - post your datasheet if you have one handy, or some details on your Kar.98a, several here like the 98a and might be able to help you if you have any questions.

 

[damiencain]

Dont have a data sheet offhand, but here are the details

1915 Erfurt marked. 1920 restamp. Serial 4067 u (or maybe an M?). Matching numbers on trigger, floor plate, trigger guard, rear screw, front and rear band, stacking hook, hand guard and forend, and the butt plate. Non matching follower and bolt assembly. Has the 1920 stamp on the left side butt plate. Gorgeous blue but rusted in spots. Wrist broken in two with old repair. Missing front trigger guard screw but retains both capture screws. Bore in decent shape (may clean up with some effort). Correct style bolt with waffle pattern on flat area on the knob. No grasping grooves but has the take down hole (not sure what to call it). Looks like a nice walnut stock (will fix the break and refinish). Had two old arsenal stamps on the right side but stock has already been sanded prior to my acquisition. Bolt, saftey and extractor marked 1417. No obvious numbers on bolt shroud or cocking piece. Attached some pics. Got it for a good price. Missing rear sight and spring.

 

[damiencain]

And a few more

pics of various parts of the rifle

 

[damiencain]

Last ones

Shots of the serial and other numbers along with an interesting stamp under the barrel. Non import marked.

 

[Loewe]

Looks like a nice 98a, the barrel code is the most interesting thing about it, - the S&S = JP Sauer, they made a lot of barrels for the G98, mostly for themselves and CGH & VCS, this might be the first 98a barrel I have seen from them. The fireproof and acceptance shows it is the original barrel.

The stock might be more original than you think, looks like someone put a coating on it, but it is typical for these interwar reworked rifles to have the stock sanded. The "1920" looks pretty sharp so it might not have been sanded recently. You might do good pictures of the wrist acceptance and along the underside, also the buttplate. Is this rifle unit marked?

The take down in the stock is typically called a take down disc or something along those lines, but it is actually a dismounting washer & ferrule used to disassemble the bolt, remove the firing pin. It wouldn't have had one originally, but pretty much all interwar rifles got one eventually.

The rifle is a "u" block, thanks for showing the rifle!

 

[damiencain]

That's the odd part

Looking at other rifles I am seeing many of them with the serial number stamped under the butt and acceptance stamps by the wrist. This one has neither and I've looked very closely. I would think that at least a serial would have some trace left as they were normally stamped semi deep from what I have seen in the past. the butt plate is not unit marked at all, but it does have the matching serial number stamped on it. I can take more pictures when I get home tonight. Hard to tell if the stock was sanded as part of a rearsenal or by a previous owner. my thought is that it might be when it was re accepted Judging by
The clarity of the 1920 stamp. I fixed the broken wrist this afternoon,and will dress up the repair over the next few days.

 

[Loewe]

You are right, typically the stock should be serialed and it have acceptance stamps, particularly at the wrist.

 

[damiencain]

Not this one

My guess is that it was restocked at some point and maybe re serialed? The serial in the hand guard and stock forend are matching the receiver serial. Curious if they put a new stock and then stamped a new matching number into it? From what I am reading it is a type 2 stock with the take down disc but no grasping grooves. Sound about right?

 

[Loewe]

Hard to say, it could be the original stock, but with a later take down installed. If the acceptance and RS cypher is gone, pretty hard to say whether it is the original stock.

The barrel channel might give a clue to if it is a replacement stock, if it has a couple serial numbers, or something along those lines, but if only one serial, it is probably the original stock or a ordnance spare, - if it had some acceptance on the wrist or elsewhere it would be something to go on, but w/o it is pure speculation. But originally (1915) this would not have the take down or grips, but the take down would have been added in the interwar period, very escaped that or the follower alteration (notched to stop the bolt on empty)

 

[damiencain]

Nope

Barrel channel only has the one number, original to the serial. The hand guard does too. But has sort of a four punch mark next to it.

 

[Loewe]

Could be the original stock, the fonts look close enough, typically the 1 & 4 are footed numerals, of course w/o acceptance there is no real way to say.

 

[damiencain]

Very interesting

You are definitely a wealth of knowledge. Thank you for all your help!

 

[damiencain]

May have found something

Stripped the stock and did a rough sand around the broken area. Have some finish sanding to do once the stock is totally dry. Used Scrubbing Bubbles to get whatever cosmoline and oil was in the stock. When it was wet, I did see what looked like an old serial number underneath the butt. Very very faint, but if my imagination is active I would say it was 4067. It looked better when wet, so when I lay a coat of stain on the stock to hide the repair, I imagine it will come out a little clearer. I also found what looked like a K in the areas where the sling buckle resides, along with maybe two small arsenal stamps. Could be totally wrong though...

 

[damiencain]

Other parts

Here are shots of the butt plate and non matching follower. But curiously under the follower there is a 7. The top of the follower is marked with what looks like 96. The buttplate is plain and marked with 4067. no other marks on it anywhere

 

[Loewe]

Thanks for the extra pictures, not much can be said w/o acceptance stamps though, - I don't suppose the take down has any markings? An acceptance or ordnance stamp?

 

[damiencain]

No there either

the takedown is completely blank as well.although I did find an uppercase K the underside trigger guard channel, but other than those scattered stamps nothing else was really found that may help its identity.

 

[damiencain]

Found something interesting

An arsenal stamp and the #13 on the tip of the forend. Mean anything?

 

[Loewe]

Well it is an Imperial era stock apparently, the fraktured acceptance seems to place it in the Imperial era, but doesn't say much else. Naturally too few ever photograph or record this location, so impossible to say what the 13 means or how common this marking is applied or purpose.

 

[damiencain]

here's a thought

I read on wikipedia that stocks were built and then left to sit or age for 3 years before being install, curious if maybe this Stock was made in 1913 and then installed on the rifle in 1915 where is received the serial numbers and whatnot.