Third Party Press

K98k with serial number 10000 ?

mrfarb said:
Yes, 98k’s went to 10000
Click to expand...
Depending on the year even higher ... ;) . Have seen an all matching K98k (serial was 40.000 or 50.000, byf43 or byf44, can't remember) which had serial "0000" on all small parts. Pretty funny to look at. But anyway, remember that the later years they did have five digit serial numbers too, meaning up 100.000 (that one be a rare one to find ...).

PS: Another proof is the third Radom VIS as shown on this website here, serial P10.000: https://www.tague.at/pistolen/index.htm?/pistolen/pages/en_radom.htm
 
In case of continuous production could be not compared the x0000 as, and the end number would be here interesting, also in case of 5 digit serialing a 100000. The 10000 number by 4 digits serialing is the switch end, as it switch to higher alphabet suffix.
 
To further that it’s likely coincidence that we just don’t see them, have you seen #1 ? Maybe once, 9999? No.

I’m sure they exist somewhere. Melted down, renumbered, who knows.
 
What survived; what we see; and what has been recorded are for the most part merely at random or by coincidence. In a completely filled run of serial numbers 1 to 10.000 the chances of observing/recording any individual serial number are the same; 1 in 10.000. Regardless of the number in question: 1, 2, 5000, 10000, or 1945 (like a recently posted bayonet) the odds are the same. Or nearly so, as it would stand to reason that we would see more lower numbers than higher as most blocks begin with 1 but many went unfinished (never reaching 10.000) prior to the end of any particular year or period. My thoughts only ....
 
feldmütze said:
I've got a pic on my pc of a 98K floorplate (with trigger guard) serial #10000. It's an old pic I believe from Gunboards. It's tiny & my attempts to enlarge it just blur it with my limited pc knowledge. If anyone wants to try their luck I can send it to you....
Click to expand...

Then that is just a five digit Mauser, otherwise it would be 0000

..
 
Slash: For K98k, Numbering 1a to 10000a is a total of 10,001 rifles in “a” block. I never heard of greater than 10000 rifles in any block.
I have always been under the impression that numbers started at 0000 and went to 9999 (10,000 rifles), then 0000a-9999a, 0000b-9999b, etc. this would put 10,000 rifles in each block.
Now, in 1943(I think) Mauser-O started to number rifles beyond 10000. They would produce as many rifles as necessary all in one letter block up to 99999 and then move to the next letter block. Each month they would start the numbers at 00000 again but with the letter block following the last block in the previous month’s production, I.e at end of March last number was 12469c. First of April the first rifle would be 00000d. Here you would have examples of rifles with digit ID of 10000, but not many.
Read the book and look at the MO production tables in Vol 2b. I think this is generally correct.
 
Last edited:
DWM numbering for Argentine 1909's began at A0000. I'd have to look through the contract papers, but Argentina requested standard german practices for production.

Conversely my Banner Carbine is 64, which means at some point they changed from the 0001, 0002 format, and went to 1, 2, etc.

Just points of reference.

Bruce, do any of your documents state explicitly the numbering scheme? I will have to look through my Gewehr 98 documents and see if I can find something.
 

Attachments

  • pix897361124.jpg
    pix897361124.jpg
    51 KB · Views: 20
I don’t recall seeing any 3rd Reich or imperial Mauser’s starting with 00xx numbering. I’ve seen quite a few 2 and 3 digit serials. I recall Scott B had a serial number 1 rifle.
 
biggymu said:
I don’t recall seeing any 3rd Reich or imperial Mauser’s starting with 00xx numbering. I’ve seen quite a few 2 and 3 digit serials. I recall Scott B had a serial number 1 rifle.
Click to expand...
I don't remember any using 0 place holders, and I have not owned many early numbered examples. I had an Amberg G98, that was 103 p.

My point was more that German production started at 0, which is the correct way to count as opposed to 1. Some production, at least commercially produced, did use zero's as placeholders, which at some point changed, but that could have been manufacturer dependent.
 
A0000 is in reality a 10000 number of A block, by no 5 digit serialing mashine (only 4 block of digits so they couldnt add the 5. digit 1 there), the serial 0000 dont exist as is a zero, zero could be not a inventory serial of a existing item! This could be typical for non Gew98 export stamping. Start of any serialing should be from 1 and by normal production was 5 digit ended with 10000 by 4 digits range.
explanation from matematics: 0 (zero) is a number representing an empty quantity.
1a - 10000a means 10000 pcs no any higher. 1a is in reality a 10001 piece when the serialing started with a range without suffix and 10000a is then a 20000 pcs in serialing.
 
Last edited:
Fal Grunt said:
DWM numbering for Argentine 1909's began at A0000. I'd have to look through the contract papers, but Argentina requested standard german practices for production.

Conversely my Banner Carbine is 64, which means at some point they changed from the 0001, 0002 format, and went to 1, 2, etc.

Just points of reference.

Bruce, do any of your documents state explicitly the numbering scheme? I will have to look through my Gewehr 98 documents and see if I can find something.
Click to expand...
When was a full four digit only s/n used by the Germans? I've seen several Imperial era rifles with 3 digits and a suffix, and K98k's with one or two digits. Had a Gew 88 that was 530 w. Have to assume that 1 and 2 digits were also used on those era rifles. The Argentine rifle shown has an "A" prefix, but the Germans always used a suffix, so perhaps the numbering system was determined by the customer? I think 0000 could as easily be the last rifle in the block as much or more so than the first in a German, 4 digit format.
 
I assume similar to austrian Steyr export production, there was no letter block before the A block, so it started from A0001 to A0000 in that case the 1 from A10000 could be not added as the serialing maschine was only 4 digit. so A9999 continued with A0000 and followed by B0001.
 
Absolut:
You are correct - my mistake. 0a to 10000a is 10001 pieces. But, as I did say, it has been my impression that numbers started at 0000 and went to 9999 and then started at 0000 again in the next letter block.
Thanks for the correction.
 
Question is about what production so numbered you are talking?, S84/98 bayonets dont exist with 0000 serial, only 10000. never found similar number as its a 0 - or zero inventory stamp, and i believe Kar98k is the same case. By early export production it was destined by technical possibilities use a serialing mashine with 4 digits only. Princip of serialing remains same.
 
He is wrong because of presented 3 rifles of Gew98 here , which confirm 10000 marked rifles from various year and various makers. The ranges were serialed in 10000 blocks not in 9999.
by statistics when You found one pcs in real numbers there exist other more, similar as You have problem found a real number with numbered 1 or 9999. That is a expectation of number.
 
Guillaume d'Orange said:
I came across this same page in Storz’s book about Gewehr 98. Who volunteers to tell him he ´s wrong ? 😀
Click to expand...

It's a good book (although in my opinion a little disorganized) but we know more now than we did when published. And all books have errors .....
 
Digging up this thread.

Ian McCollum also does the mistake of saying that numbering ends with 9999 (though he says 10000 first). See at 8:56 in this video he made recently:

 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Military Rifle Journal
Back
Top